Definitely the wrong crowd but **** it...a guy I know is getting torn apart on twitter today because he said that it was acceptable for a man to try to "convince" a woman to have *** with him.....e.g. by being charming. Attracting a person by your behaviour=rape, is a more popular opinion in certain circles now than believing that a person can change their mind.
It’s rarely that simple, especially with two drunk people who were apparently all over one another all night (according to witnesses) A likely reason the 1st trial ended hung and the 2nd a not guilty result.
This is a fair comment, and yep it was Doug. Having said that, he was found guilty and got 100 hours of community service as a punishment (as opposed to Kuggz who is publicly perceived as getting off scot free).
How can you possibly think he’s gotten away scot free in terms of publicity? His name’s been completely and utterly rubbished, and on a constant basis. More so than I recall with a public personality in recent times.
this is true. we're in the middle of a culture war. some good will eventually come of it i hope, but the battle lines have been drawn.
there's a massive difference between obvious teasing rejections and a no before and during the act. i mean come on im a nerd who posts on cricket forums and even i have enough basic social skills to navigate this.
im relieved this is the case tbh. for most of human history and even now (harvey weintstein etc) people with status have been able to exploit people below them to varying degrees knowing their victims will usually be too scared to tell.
I totally agree, that's the point. "No" depends on context and body language, two things we are lacking (other than the numerous accounts of their pre-bedroom behaviour) to judge this situation appropriately.
Not meaning to take issue with you directly Zinzan but this is something I've read numerous times about this case and other cases, where people at parties were flirting so therefore she wanted it down the road. Consent doesn't work like that but a lot of people think they do, which is why cases like this arise, and why it's important to talk about where the line is. I think part of it is also the general perception of rape still continues to be some random person attacking strangers on dark empty streets, when it's often between people known to each other, and indeed, there's a fair amount of ***ual assault that goes on within relationships. It's a bit of a false logic to assume that because 4 or 5 hours before they seemed like they were having a good time, therefore she was unlikely to say no later.
It's also an easy narrative that women are just in it for fame or to destroy a guy with baseless accusations. The courts still tend to skew in favour of letting the accused off the hook; it's the public trial by social media that is vastly different.
Agreed. It happens so often in sports with people drunk driving; they get a slap on the wrists, they do the public service and get applauded for making amends by fronting up but do any of them actually do anything to change the culture, or even their own drinking habits? Rarely, if ever. It's all PR. In this case I think K00gz seems genuinely remorseful and wants to put it behind him and fair enough, and NZC/Kuggleijn will be damned if they do damned if they don't, in terms of addressing it publicly. If he admits guilt in any way people will wonder why he wasn't punished, and if he denies in any way there will be outrage again, so the best thing is to try and make sure it doesn't happen anymore, because you can't change the past, but you can help prevent it happening in the future. And I think issues like this, unlike drink driving, it's harder for the victim(s) involved to see someone try to make amends publicly, so in a way NZC is kinda doing what they should with their handbook and in ground messages (wasn't there billboards about consent at one of the games, or was I thinking of a Big Bash game on TV the other day?).
I've heard a lot of people say a similar variation of "he may not have committed a crime but he still acted badly and should apologise", but I really don't think it's that simple.
From a cricketing point of view, I think he's currently overrated. he can crank up the speed but he doesn't seem to swing it or move it off the seam. Sure, he can hit a long ball, but in that respect he's basically doing the same job as James Neesham.
I don’t think he has to do that ... I think most would be happy with a reiteration of the apology he gave in his text the next day, tbh. Advice he could give would be if in any doubt at all, check consent is given. That’s a bit of a no-brainer I’d have thought, I’ve always done it, it even in a drunken state ... but it would’ve saved Kuggeleigjn (and others, I guess) a lot of grief.
Think this is all very well said ...
nah soz man, meant the generalised "you" not you specifically. poor phrasing on my part.
