ODI ATG XIs

[sunilz]

Sachin could've been a quality bits and pieces troll all rounder if he was a crappier batsman.

Meet Sachin's Bunny Inzamam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQwVxRtnlg&t=29s

 

[Burgey]

Warne's 2005 Ashes was something else. Never have I seen a cricketer trying so hard to will his team to be better by his own force of personality/skill. Greatest individual performance in a series I can recall.

Was a one man army that series. With McGrath injured he had only declining Dizzy, journeyman Kaspa and Spud Lee for support. Was Lee’s biggest chance to step up, and he went all Tendulkar-in-a-final on us.

 

[sunilz]

Was a one man army that series. With McGrath injured he had only declining Dizzy, journeyman Kaspa and Spud Lee for support. Was Lee’s biggest chance to step up, and he went all Mark and Steve Waugh-in-a-final on us.

Fixed for you
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[Burgey]

Oh you’re still here? I thought you’d headed off to infest some other forum.

 

[Red]

Was a one man army that series. With McGrath injured he had only declining Dizzy, journeyman Kaspa and Spud Lee for support. Was Lee’s biggest chance to step up, and he went all Tendulkar-in-a-final on us.

I loved Dizzy. Devastated me watching the decline of him in that series. Tainted his legacy a bit too, he was a tremendous quick in his prime, which is sometimes forgotten.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Dizzy was absolute quality, a truly phenomenal bowler at his peak. Genuinely rapid too back in the day, Ian Healy said that around 1997ish he was the quickest he had ever kept wicket to. Even before Tests, his 1995-96 Shield season was one of the best of any Australian fast bowler, in an era where domestic batsman were leaps and bounds ahead of what we have now.

 

[stephen]

The only time I remember dizzy looking like a genuinely great bowler was when McGrath took all the wickets. Dizzy bowled fractionally too short and kept missing the edge while McGrath bowled on a perfect length and caught it.

 

[h_hurricane]

Fixed for you
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

lol. Owned and boned him. So to sum it up, Mark, Steve and the lesser AB have a sum total of 3 hundreds in 110 ODI finals against top 8 teams. Sachin has 4 in 38.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Talk about cherry picking. You're selecting 46 innings out of a career of 289 innings'. And it's not even saying "pick every innings he opened in", it's saying pick every innings he opened in during this short 4 year window.

And yes, he averaged 48 during those 4 years when he was opener, but he did so with a strike rate of 71, which is a huge gap from what sachin did across his career as an opener.

If you take every innings Mark Waugh opened and compared it to every innings Lara opened, you would find that Mark Waugh and Lara had 2 points of average difference and 2 runs per hundred strike rate difference. But Waugh opened in roughly 3 times as many innings' as Lara did.

If you change the comparison to "top order" then Lara pulls ahead (3 run average difference, 5 rph sr difference). But as openers there is little difference between Lara and Waugh. Interestingly enough they scored virtually the same number of hundreds and 50s as top 3 batsmen, but Lara did it in 17 fewer matches.

In fact, Lara and Waugh had statistically very similar careers. Lara played more matches and scored 2000 extra runs but both players ended with an average around 1 run apart and with very similar strike rates. And both players scored in excess of 11000 runs over a decade+, which is phenomenal.

+Lara 17 years, Waugh 14 years

Lara as Opener - 46 AVG at 75 SR , 90% of his Opening happened in 91-94 period

46 at 75 in early 90s = 50 at 80 in late 90s

Lara as Number 3 - 46 at 86.

That's a total of 158 innings, 17 X 100s , 41 X 50s , 6600 plus runs

Only Tendulkar can be compared to top order Lara in that Generation.

Mark Waugh is in the league of Saeed Anwar and Jayasoorya.

Until 1995 , Lara was easily the best opening Batsman in ODi history. 46 innings in a particular position was not a short career at that time.its At least as significant as G.Pollock's 22 tests 60 AVG.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Not really. It's too small a sample size to determine anything.

Last 3 years of his career
56 matches
45.5 AVG , 21 X 50 , 1 X 100

Gavaskar retired when he was at his Best.

( ATG performance in Last test and FC matches too )

 

[Burgey]

lol. Owned and boned him. So to sum it up, Mark, Steve and the lesser AB have a sum total of 3 hundreds in 110 ODI finals against top 8 teams. Sachin has 4 in 38.

What are you dribbling about? When did Tendulkar play in 38 WC finals ffs? Some made for tv piece of **** tourney in Sharjah is nothing but a meaningless ODI series by another name. When the pressure was on - you know, WC pressure, not the Pepsi Challenge Bowling with a Bell in the Ball Trophy pressure, he crumbled like a sao in a blender. At least contribute something when it matters most, Sach. Something. Anything.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Stats like that really remind you of how many garbage ODI "tournaments" there were in the 90s. They must have had a random tri-series every few months

 

[stephen]

Tbf, growing up in the 90s ODIs were particularly exciting. It was easily the most competitive era for them.

 

[jimmy101]

They must have had a random tri-series every few months

Tbh I kinda miss the days when tri-series' were in vogue.

 

[stephen]

Lara as Opener - 46 AVG at 75 SR , 90% of his Opening happened in 91-94 period

46 at 75 in early 90s = 50 at 80 in late 90s

Lara as Number 3 - 46 at 86.

That's a total of 158 innings, 17 X 100s , 41 X 50s , 6600 plus runs

Only Tendulkar can be compared to top order Lara in that Generation.

Mark Waugh is in the league of Saeed Anwar and Jayasoorya.

Until 1995 , Lara was easily the best opening Batsman in ODi history. 46 innings in a particular position was not a short career at that time.its At least as significant as G.Pollock's 22 tests 60 AVG.

Love the stats inflation between two five year periods for no reason whatsoever. Really helps prove your point.

The beautiful thing is that Lara and Waugh both had very long careers and over the course of those careers were very similar statistically.

Why you would isolate a 46 match purple patch in a career of nearly 300 matches and cite it as a reason why player A was greater than player B is beyond me.

It's not like there was some event in 1995 that made Lara significantly worse. And if you're looking at his record as opener I'm not sure why you wouldn't include all his opening innings.

Face it, as an ODI player, Lara was of very similar calibre to Mark Waugh. That is, both players were exceptionally good and played in the best era of ODI cricket and faced many off the best ODI bowlers of all time.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I liked the old random ODI tri series days, but it isn't even remotely close to a World Cup in terms of pressure and context

 

[Burgey]

In order to end this tiresome debate once and for all, I will now provide the definitive ATG ODI WC Final XI. This XI is the greatest ODI XI, because nothing else in ODIs matters other than WC finals. The brain dead will think and say otherwise, but they are to be excused owing to cerebral accidents on their part

Here goes:

Gilchrist(+) - Three finals, three substantial contributions, including a blazing ton. First bloke picked.
Tendulkar - jokes, obvs. Wouldn't pick him in a thousand years for a pressure final. You could have him in order to make a contest of it, to give the opposition hope and to get Viv in early, but really this spot actually goes to:
Boonie - 75 in the 87 final and deservedly MOTM. Interesting that very few openers aside from Gilchrist have done a lot in the WC final over the years. Boonie's is the most important of any contribution by an opener apart from Gilly so he gets this. I mean, Sehwag got 80 odd in 03, but that game was over before India even batted. And then he hilariously choked in 2011 vs SL so he's 50-50 at best, much like the rest of his career really..
Viv (7) - blazed 130 odd in 79, three run outs in 75. Best ODI batsman of all time to boot.
Ponting - three WC final wins, played that ridiculous 140 odd in the 03 final. Seriously thought Zaheer might cry that day. Wish he had. Type of knock Chokedulkar could only dream of playing, despite his heroics in the truly epic and meaningful DLF Maximum Sharjah Invitational a few months earlier.
Aravinda (6) - gun all round performance in the 96 final. Brilliant stuff from a great player.
Lloyd(c) (5) - still probably the greatest ever WC final knock. Handy mediums in that era too.
Dhoni - got India home with a great chasing effort in 2011.
Wasim (3) - dat 92 final
Warne (4) - MOTM in 99
Garner (2) - 5/38 in 1979. Plus an ATG ODI quick
McGrath (1) - three winning finals, got the job done in every one of them. Provided the greatest moment in WC final history in 03 when he performed the Heimlich Maneuver on Chokedulkar.

Team doesn't have a genuine all rounder but it doesn't need one, because the blokes in the side all get it done when it matters most, in WC finals.

Close the thread now please.

 

[stephen]

Until this thread if forgotten that the 96 world cup was held in the subcontinent.

Which means it's been 27 years since Australia have lost a world cup outside the subcontinent. The last time that happened, Australia lost at home in 1992.

 

[Burgey]

I reckon they'll lose this one unless there's a lot in the decks.

 

[jimmy101]

In order to end this tiresome debate once and for all, I will now provide the definitive ATG ODI WC Final XI. This XI is the greatest ODI XI, because nothing else in ODIs matters other than WC finals. The brain dead will think and say otherwise, but they are to be excused owing to cerebral accidents on their part

Here goes:

Gilchrist(+) - Three finals, three substantial contributions, including a blazing ton. First bloke picked.
Tendulkar - jokes, obvs. Wouldn't pick him in a thousand years for a pressure final. You could have him in order to make a contest of it, to give the opposition hope and to get Viv in early, but really this spot actually goes to:
Boonie - 75 in the 87 final and deservedly MOTM. Interesting that very few openers aside from Gilchrist have done a lot in the WC final over the years. Boonie's is the most important of any contribution by an opener apart from Gilly so he gets this. I mean, Sehwag got 80 odd in 03, but that game was over before India even batted. And then he hilariously choked in 2011 vs SL so he's 50-50 at best, much like the rest of his career really..
Viv (7) - blazed 130 odd in 79, three run outs in 75. Best ODI batsman of all time to boot.
Ponting - three WC final wins, played that ridiculous 140 odd in the 03 final. Seriously thought Zaheer might cry that day. Wish he had. Type of knock Chokedulkar could only dream of playing, despite his heroics in the truly epic and meaningful DLF Maximum Sharjah Invitational a few months earlier.
Aravinda (6) - gun all round performance in the 96 final. Brilliant stuff from a great player.
Lloyd(c) (5) - still probably the greatest ever WC final knock. Handy mediums in that era too.
Dhoni - got India home with a great chasing effort in 2011.
Wasim (3) - dat 92 final
Warne (4) - MOTM in 99
Garner (2) - 5/38 in 1979. Plus an ATG ODI quick
McGrath (1) - three winning finals, got the job done in every one of them. Provided the greatest moment in WC final history in 03 when he performed the Heimlich Maneuver on Chokedulkar.

Team doesn't have a genuine all rounder but it doesn't need one, because the blokes in the side all get it done when it matters most, in WC finals.

Close the thread now please.

Almost identical to my CWC final XI a few pages back. Would sub in Imran for Dhoni though.