ODI ATG XIs

[trundler]

What does the “batting got easier” mean for fab4? They were being consistent or improving? Hard to tell.

Brilliant back and forth between the Australian and South African Sunilz's.

 

[Bolo]

AB as others have called out is another example. His performance in test series against India and Australia just before retirement were good enough for me to moderately upgrade his test cricketer rating from almost ATG to ATG.

Ya, I was one of the ones discussing him. In odis he didn't go out at the absolute top unlike sanga. But im not sure how much that matters. He was twice the odi bat sanga was. Sanga was merely pretty good before his last few years of madness.

In tests AB was the only bat i can remember gping out at his absolute peak. I was with you on the almost atg vs atg rating before his last two series. I figured those two pushed him over the line as well. But I reflected after the Lanka tour and realised hoe far ahead he had been of what used to be an atg top order for years (at least in difficult conditions), so i retroactively upgraded him to atg, even withouth those ladt two series.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sunil Gavaskar
Last 18 matches
1 X 100
7 X 50
49 AVG at 72.6 SR

 

[Bolo]

Oops, wrong thread

 

[Red]

Warne's career (red and to an extent white ball):

91-93 Learning the game. Raw talent but somewhat unrefined.
93-98: the most talented spinner of all time.
98-02: taking wickets on reputation, ability severely hampered by injuries.
04-07: regained part of his 93-98 capabilities but took many of his wickets through out- thinking the batsmen.

Warne never truly regained the energy he was able to impart on the ball that he had before and was never able to bowl the flipper at all after the injury.

Warne's 2005 Ashes was something else. Never have I seen a cricketer trying so hard to will his team to be better by his own force of personality/skill. Greatest individual performance in a series I can recall.

 

[marc71178]

Sunil Gavaskar
Last 18 matches
1 X 100
7 X 50
49 AVG at 72.6 SR

Relevance?

 

[akilana]

Brilliant back and forth between the Australian and South African Sunilz's.

Thanks for your another excellent contribution.

 

[stephen]

What does the “batting got easier” mean for fab4? They were being consistent or improving? Hard to tell.

We're talking ODIs, not tests. Batting has gotten dramatically easier in ODIs over the last few years, particularly since the last World Cup where two new balls have been used. The Fab 4 refers to the test players.

 

[akilana]

We're talking ODIs, not tests. Batting has gotten dramatically easier in ODIs over the last few years, particularly since the last World Cup where two new balls have been used. The Fab 4 refers to the test players.

Then your original post makes even less sense.

 

[stephen]

Warne's 2005 Ashes was something else. Never have I seen a cricketer trying so hard to will his team to be better by his own force of personality/skill. Greatest individual performance in a series I can recall.

Three of the top 4 Ashes bowling performances by Australians have been in losing causes:

42 wickets by Alderman in 1981
41 wickets by Hogg in 1978/79
40 wickets by Warne in 2005

The only 40+ wicket series in a winning cause was Alderman in 1989 where he took 41 wickets.

 

[stephen]

Then your original post makes even less sense.

Yeah it was just a (poor) joke really.

 

[TheJediBrah]

A sensible person plays on in the game they love until someone stops them. I am hard pushed to downgrade a player for that.

yeah funny that you rate a player lower who plays on to serve his country even when past his best*, and rate a player higher who retires on top and leaves his team high and dry struggling to replace him

logically you'd do the opposite

*obviously this doesn't concern players whose playing on when past their best potentially hurt the team (? Dhoni, ? Tendulkar)

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Relevance?

He retired when his performance was ATG level.

 

[stephen]

That's 4 plus years, and there is nothing to suggest he would have been a failure if he continued to open . Also his number 3 stats looks stunning too.
Basically ,
Top order Lara = Sachin.
Nothing wrong in selecting him as AT 11 opener.

Talk about cherry picking. You're selecting 46 innings out of a career of 289 innings'. And it's not even saying "pick every innings he opened in", it's saying pick every innings he opened in during this short 4 year window.

And yes, he averaged 48 during those 4 years when he was opener, but he did so with a strike rate of 71, which is a huge gap from what sachin did across his career as an opener.

If you take every innings Mark Waugh opened and compared it to every innings Lara opened, you would find that Mark Waugh and Lara had 2 points of average difference and 2 runs per hundred strike rate difference. But Waugh opened in roughly 3 times as many innings' as Lara did.

If you change the comparison to "top order" then Lara pulls ahead (3 run average difference, 5 rph sr difference). But as openers there is little difference between Lara and Waugh. Interestingly enough they scored virtually the same number of hundreds and 50s as top 3 batsmen, but Lara did it in 17 fewer matches.

In fact, Lara and Waugh had statistically very similar careers. Lara played more matches and scored 2000 extra runs but both players ended with an average around 1 run apart and with very similar strike rates. And both players scored in excess of 11000 runs over a decade+, which is phenomenal.

+Lara 17 years, Waugh 14 years

 

[marc71178]

He retired when his performance was ATG level.

Not really. It's too small a sample size to determine anything.

 

[vcs]

Lara was a class ODI batsman in the '90s, played some incredible knocks against superb attacks. I remember Sachin getting him out a few times when he was batting really well and threatening to take the game away from us. Don't remember which match exactly.

 

[sunilz]

Lara was a class ODI batsman in the '90s, played some incredible knocks against superb attacks. I remember Sachin getting him out a few times when he was batting really well and threatening to take the game away from us. Don't remember which match exactly.

Full Scorecard of India vs West Indies, C.A.B. Jubilee Tournament (Hero Cup), Final - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com
Full Scorecard of West Indies vs India 5th ODI 2002 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com
Full Scorecard of India vs West Indies 1st ODI 2007 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

Youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttQlE0l-GD4

 

[harsh.ag]

Haha he got him thrice.

Sachin was so underbowled in the latter half of his career. Wonder why. He used to love bowling.

 

[vcs]

Full Scorecard of India vs West Indies, C.A.B. Jubilee Tournament (Hero Cup), Final - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com
Full Scorecard of West Indies vs India 5th ODI 2002 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com
Full Scorecard of India vs West Indies 1st ODI 2007 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

Youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttQlE0l-GD4

Haha that's gold. Dravid missing a stumping off a beautiful wrong 'un and then Lara hits a filthy full toss straight down square-leg's throat.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sachin could've been a quality bits and pieces troll all rounder if he was a crappier batsman.