ODI ATG XIs

[smash84]

Plenty are rated 'highly enough' yes, but were talking all time XIs here.Viv and Sachin would be neck a neck for the number 2 spot after Bradman imo instead of a 10 way tie with other greats if we take away their final 3 years.

And Ponting would be heads and shoulders clear of Border, Waugh and Chappell as Australia's number 2 if we forget his final 3 years

I think Dhoni has dropped enough for Bevan to be considered a better ODI bat. The thing with Dhoni is he's Bevan and Gilchrist combined which helps his cause.

Really, what exactly was so special of the Viv from 1986-1991?

 

[mr_mister]

Really, what exactly was so special of the Viv from 1986-1991?

Huh?

 

[smash84]

Huh?

sorry, i misread the last part of your statement.

Viv is still rated pretty highly despite very mediocre last few years of his career, basically due to the strength of his first 13 years.

I don't see why the same can't be done for Dhoni

 

[TheJediBrah]

wow talk of Rossouw is itstl

surely SA haven't been that desperate for middle-order bats

sorry, i misread the last part of your statement.

Viv is still rated pretty highly despite very mediocre last few years of his career, basically due to the strength of his first 13 years.

I don't see why the same can't be done for Dhoni

that's not really relevant. The issue being discussed isn't that he might not be rated highly at all, its that he might not be rated as highly.

 

[mr_mister]

sorry, i misread the last part of your statement.

Viv is still rated pretty highly despite very mediocre last few years of his career, basically due to the strength of his first 13 years.

I don't see why the same can't be done for Dhoni

I addressed this in my last post I believe

 

[Victor Ian]

Tendulkar
Dev
Viv
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds
Klusener
Dhoni
Hadlee
Pollock
Warne


Long shot putting Dev as opener, but why not? I figure his style works anywhere. The same logic to put Gilchrist as opener to smash the ball into submission would work for Dev and his amazing smile would put bowlers off as they run in to get him . Dhoni moves around depending on the situation. Warne only in the team over Brad Hogg because of his ability to step up when required.

Maybe I should have McGrath instead of Pollock. But then I have a bunny in the team.

 

[jimmy101]

Viv & Sachin opening together would be a sight to behold. The sploosh-factor would be off the charts.

 

[Victor Ian]

Viv & Sachin opening together would be a sight to behold. The sploosh-factor would be off the charts.

In my team, that happens quite often.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Viv & Sachin opening together would be a sight to behold. The sploosh-factor would be off the charts.

Sachin and Lara . Not Bad.

Top order Lara = Sachin

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I do agree it’s bizarre, but we’re picking the best XI players here rather than the best team.

Australia were an amazing team - that had quite a few world class/GOAT level players, often playing at the same time, but you can see an argument being made for not picking any Australian because there were better players in those positions from another 6-7 or so nations across the last 40 or so years.

Ponting is a great example really - world class player, in the discussion for greatest of all time for his position in ODIs but Viv and Kohli are just better (though obviously Ponting has proved his mettle in World Cups).

This level has basically played out across 11 positions - I think the only Australian lock should be McGrath.

The rest are all up for debate/bias based on whose helicopter shot you liked better.

How is McGrath a lock ?

Kapil
Hadlee
Akram
Saqlain
Garner

Akram and Garner most popular GOAT bowler choices

Kapil GOAT allrounder

Saqlain GOAT spinner

1 more spot is available ,

I picked Hadlee , because his bowling easily among the very best and he can bat.

Hadlee is not the only choice too.

Pollock is there , Imran , Donald ..

 

[stephen]

How is McGrath a lock ?

Kapil
Hadlee
Akram
Saqlain
Garner

Akram and Garner most popular GOAT bowler choices

Kapil GOAT allrounder

Saqlain GOAT spinner

1 more spot is available ,

I picked Hadlee , because his bowling easily among the very best and he can bat.

Hadlee is not the only choice too.

Pollock is there , Imran , Donald ..

McGrath is a lock because not only was he just as good as the others in normal circumstances, his game went to the next level in important matches. He was the best ODI quick in history IMO. Garner a close second, but Garner played in a different era that devalues his incredible economy a bit.

McGrath, Garner and Akram provides a well rounded fast bowling attack and leaves room for a spinner who can average around 10 (so basically any of the big 3 spinners).

Half of the first XI picks itself:

Tendulkar

Richards
Kohli
De Villiers


Akram

Garner
McGrath

You need to choose between Bevan and Dhoni for a safety net/ finisher role, Gilchrist and Dhoni for the gloves, pick a fifth bowler and pick your spinner of choice.

 

[jimmy101]

My head would explode if Sachin & Lara opened together in an ODI.

 

[TheJediBrah]

My head would explode if Sachin & Lara opened together in an ODI.

Kind of like when Sachin and Ponting opened together in the IPL


too bad they were both old and kind of sucked

 

[jimmy101]

Kind of like when Sachin and Ponting opened together in the IPL


too bad they were both old and kind of sucked

Holy crap. Are you able to dig up a video of that?

 

[h_hurricane]

Tendulkar
Dev
Viv
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds
Klusener
Dhoni
Hadlee
Pollock
Warne


Long shot putting Dev as opener, but why not? I figure his style works anywhere. The same logic to put Gilchrist as opener to smash the ball into submission would work for Dev and his amazing smile would put bowlers off as they run in to get him . Dhoni moves around depending on the situation. Warne only in the team over Brad Hogg because of his ability to step up when required.

Maybe I should have McGrath instead of Pollock. But then I have a bunny in the team.

Awesome team this. India really missed a trick by not batting Dev up the order towards the end of his career(he did for a match in 1992 world cup though). Instead we had duds playing first 20 overs for almost nothing till Tendulkar arrived.

Yes, playing Mcgrath instead of Pollock (or may be Hadlee) and moving the others up a slot is a good idea.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Holy crap. Are you able to dig up a video of that?

couldn't find anything at a glance, I can find plenty of articles about it though. It was 2013 if that helps. Videos might have been taken down by broadcaster I dunno

 

[jimmy101]

Ditto. It'd be a broadcaster thing then. Hopefully robelinda can help us out on that one in a few years.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

McGrath is a lock because not only was he just as good as the others in normal circumstances, his game went to the next level in important matches. He was the best ODI quick in history IMO. Garner a close second, but Garner played in a different era that devalues his incredible economy a bit.

McGrath, Garner and Akram provides a well rounded fast bowling attack and leaves room for a spinner who can average around 10 (so basically any of the big 3 spinners).

Half of the first XI picks itself:

Tendulkar

Richards
Kohli
De Villiers


Akram

Garner
McGrath

You need to choose between Bevan and Dhoni for a safety net/ finisher role, Gilchrist and Dhoni for the gloves, pick a fifth bowler and pick your spinner of choice.

Ok , That's your opinion.

Many people rates Akram or Garner as the greatest.
Also McGrath benefitted from playing for an unbeatable team. ( McGrath and Gilchrist are the main reasons for that though.)

There is nothing wrong in selecting Garner , Akram , Hadlee , Kapil and Saqlain combo as it's basically between Garner and McGrath. Hadlee and Kapil allrounders , Akram half allrounder and left hand variety.

For me , The Locks are

Sachin

Viv
Kohli
Abdv
Dhoni
Kapil

Akram

Lara , Hadlee , Saqlain and Garner completes the 11

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Lara opening , Kapil and Hadlee bowling allrounders

That way you can avoid lesser batsmen ( Gilly , Jayasoorya , Anwar , Mark Waugh, Kallis..) and lesser bowlers ( Klusner , Kallis , Symonds , Watson ..) from the team .

 

[Victor Ian]

Really good bowlers have a strike rate in the low 30's. This quickly tells me an average team would, on average, not be bowled out - probably 9 down, if all 5 bowlers were top class. Put them up against all time great bats and you would expect them to rarely bowl teams out. Therefore, I am thinking that for all time great teams, economy is as important as strike rate, with average being the least useful stat.
As such, I was wondering how does an economy x strike rate rank players? This is what we get

Player	Ave	Econ	SR	Econ x SR
J Garner*(WI)	18.84	3.09	36.5	113
SE Bond*(NZ)	20.88	4.28	29.2	125
MA Holding*(WI)	21.36	3.32	38.5	128
Sir RJ Hadlee*(NZ)	21.56	3.3	39.1	129
Saqlain Mushtaq*(PAK)	21.78	4.29	30.4	130
AA Donald*(SA)	21.78	4.15	31.4	130
BAW Mendis*(SL)	21.86	4.8	27.3	131
GD McGrath*(AUS/ICC)	22.02	3.88	34	132
Saeed Ajmal*(PAK)	22.72	4.18	32.6	136
M Muralitharan*(Asia/ICC/SL)	23.08	3.93	35.2	138
B Lee*(AUS)	23.36	4.76	29.4	140
Wasim Akram*(PAK)	23.52	3.89	36.2	141
Waqar Younis*(PAK)	23.84	4.68	30.5	143
CEL Ambrose*(WI)	24.12	3.48	41.5	144
NW Bracken*(AUS)	24.36	4.41	33	146
A Flintoff*(ENG/ICC)	24.38	4.39	33.2	146
SM Pollock*(Afr/ICC/SA)	24.5	3.67	39.9	146
M Ntini*(ICC/SA)	24.65	4.53	32.6	148
CJ McDermott*(AUS)	24.71	4.03	36.7	148
Shoaib Akhtar*(Asia/ICC/PAK)	24.97	4.76	31.4	149
Imran Tahir*(SA)	24.87	4.67	31.9	149
M Morkel*(Afr/SA)	25.32	4.95	30.6	151
MG Johnson*(AUS)	25.26	4.83	31.3	151
DW Fleming*(AUS)	25.38	4.41	34.4	152
JN Gillespie*(AUS)	25.42	4.21	36.2	152
SK Warne*(AUS/ICC)	25.73	4.25	36.3	154
DW Steyn*(Afr/SA)	25.92	4.88	31.8	155
EJ Chatfield*(NZ)	25.84	3.57	43.3	155
Abdul Qadir*(PAK)	26.16	4.06	38.6	157
D Gough*(ENG/ICC)	26.42	4.39	36	158
IR Bishop*(WI)	26.5	4.33	36.7	159
Imran Khan*(PAK)	26.61	3.89	40.9	159
KD Mills*(NZ)	27.02	4.72	34.2	161
GB Hogg*(AUS)	26.84	4.51	35.6	161
DK Morrison*(NZ)	27.53	4.53	36.3	164
N Kapil Dev*(INDIA)	27.45	3.71	44.2	164
WPUJC Vaas*(Asia/SL)	27.53	4.18	39.4	165
AB Agarkar*(INDIA)	27.85	5.07	32.9	167
MF Maharoof*(SL)	28.06	4.89	34.3	168
J Srinath*(INDIA)	28.08	4.44	37.8	168
PL Taylor*(AUS)	28.24	4.17	40.5	169
AR Border*(AUS)	28.36	4.66	36.4	170
MC Snedden*(NZ)	28.39	4.29	39.6	170
IT Botham*(ENG)	28.54	3.96	43.2	171
SL Malinga*(SL)	28.75	5.34	32.3	172
SP O'Donnell*(AUS)	28.72	4.27	40.2	172
M Prabhakar*(INDIA)	28.87	4.27	40.5	173
Umar Gul*(PAK)	29.34	5.19	33.8	175
R Rampaul*(WI)	29.35	5.1	34.4	175
JM Anderson*(ENG)	29.22	4.92	35.6	175
Abdur Razzak*(BDESH)	29.29	4.56	38.4	175
JDP Oram*(NZ)	29.17	4.38	39.9	175
PR Reiffel*(AUS)	29.2	3.92	44.6	175
Z Khan*(Asia/INDIA)	29.43	4.93	35.8	176
DJ Bravo*(WI)	29.51	5.41	32.7	177
JE Taylor*(WI)	29.53	5.22	33.9	177
Mohammad Sami*(PAK)	29.47	4.99	35.4	177
IK Pathan*(INDIA)	29.72	5.26	33.8	178
DNT Zoysa*(SL)	29.75	4.52	39.4	178
Shakib Al Hasan*(BDESH)	29.68	4.44	40	178
TM Odoyo*(Afr/KENYA)	29.89	4.6	38.9	179
HH Streak*(Afr/ZIM)	29.82	4.51	39.6	179
SCJ Broad*(ENG)	30.13	5.26	34.3	180
CRD Fernando*(Asia/SL)	30.2	5.2	34.7	180
L Klusener*(SA)	29.95	4.7	38.2	180
AG Cremer*(ZIM)	30.22	4.61	39.3	181
WKM Benjamin*(WI)	30.79	4.15	44.4	184
A Kumble*(Asia/INDIA)	30.89	4.3	43	185
Mudassar Nazar*(PAK)	30.91	4.24	43.7	185
NLTC Perera*(SL)	31.2	5.87	31.8	187
Mashrafe Mortaza*(Asia/BDESH)	31.36	4.8	39.1	188
Aaqib Javed*(PAK)	31.43	4.28	44	188
Mohammad Nabi*(AFG)	31.44	4.25	44.3	188
A Nehra*(Asia/INDIA)	31.72	5.19	36.6	190
SR Watson*(AUS)	31.79	4.95	38.4	190
JH Kallis*(Afr/ICC/SA)	31.79	4.84	39.3	190
Abdul Razzaq*(Asia/PAK)	31.83	4.69	40.6	190
KJ O'Brien*(IRE)	31.91	5.24	36.5	191
UDU Chandana*(SL)	31.9	4.7	40.6	191
DR Tuffey*(NZ)	32.12	4.89	39.3	192
BKV Prasad*(INDIA)	32.3	4.67	41.4	193
M Dillon*(WI)	32.44	4.61	42.1	194
Rubel Hossain*(BDESH)	32.68	5.6	34.9	195
R Ashwin*(INDIA)	32.91	4.91	40.1	197
CL Cairns*(ICC/NZ)	32.8	4.84	40.6	197
JO Holder*(WI)	33.05	5.47	36.2	198
Saleem Malik*(PAK)	33.24	5.06	39.3	199
KMDN Kulasekara*(SL)	33.92	4.9	41.5	203
SO Tikolo*(Afr/KENYA)	34.2	4.8	42.7	205
AD Mathews*(SL)	34.21	4.61	44.4	205
ME Waugh*(AUS)	34.56	4.78	43.3	207
Shahid Afridi*(Asia/ICC/PAK)	34.51	4.62	44.7	207
TG Southee*(NZ)	34.84	5.41	38.6	209
TT Bresnan*(ENG)	34.98	5.42	38.7	210
CH Gayle*(ICC/WI)	35.33	4.77	44.3	211
SB Styris*(NZ)	35.32	4.74	44.6	211
RA Jadeja*(INDIA)	35.4	4.89	43.4	212
B Kumar*(INDIA)	35.91	4.98	43.2	215
A Symonds*(AUS)	37.25	5	44.6	223
E Chigumbura*(Afr/ZIM)	42.31	5.91	42.9	254

I limited this to the top 100 players on strike rate who had bowled in more than 80 innings, because why not.

Is this worth anything?