ODI ATG XIs

[h_hurricane]

You say Jayasuriya, I’d say Afridi. As I alluded to, he wasn't actually that good and I cannot see why people rate him at 7 in an ATG side.

He was by no means a lock at # 7, but certainly a strong contender. Klusener and Flintoff were better batsmen whereas Kapil was arguably a better hitter. Kapil was a better bowler than Lance and on par with Freddy. You can make a case for any of them based on what you deem important.

He was Afridi with the bat but not being Afridi with the ball helps his case.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You say Jayasuriya, I’d say Afridi. As I alluded to, he wasn't actually that good and I cannot see why people rate him at 7 in an ATG side.

30 plus AVG at 100 plus Strike Rate in low and slow scoring era is better than Afridi level.

Many top order batsmen were averaging in low 30s .. Border , Gower, Richie Richardson , Steve Waugh , Salim Malik , Taylor, Ijaz Ahmed ..the list goes on.

Srikanth , Kim Hughes , Mendis , Mike Gatting , John Wright.. etc Averaged less than 30.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

When you cherry pick stats and come up with two years where he averaged in the 30s and 4 years in the 20s, it means he is unreliable as hell. Matchwinner, yes, but hes not a number 7. Klusenar averaged more career than kapils best year and he's a dubious number 7.

It's 6 years , and averaging 30 plus at 100 plus strike rate was good enough to get you rated as the best batsman of the decade for most of the teams then. Not just India. I think.

 

[Bolo]

It's 6 years , and averaging 30 plus at 100 plus strike rate was good enough to get you rated as the best batsman of the decade for most of the teams then. Not just India. I think.

Im commenting on reliability. You are discussing quality. Different measures.

Everyone other than india and the minnows had some great bats playing for a big chunk of the 80s. Plenty of players would have managed an impressive purple patch.

 

[marc71178]

30 plus AVG at 100 plus Strike Rate in low and slow scoring era is better than Afridi level.

Yes, but 23.79 at a S/R of 95.07 is neither 30 plus nor 100 plus.

 

[ankitj]

I'm in Kapil is overrated camp. His ODI batting was quite hit and miss.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Virtually his entire reputation comes from that 175. Can't bat any higher than 8 in an at xi.

 

[ankitj]

Lance Klusener is a better choice for a lower order all rounder. Watson or Jayasuriya for opening all rounder. Those are the only 3 I would consider for all rounder role in ATG ODI XI. Flintoff has superb numbers but somehow I don't remember anything memorable he ever did.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Yes, but 23.79 at a S/R of 95.07 is neither 30 plus nor 100 plus.

I was talking about 6 years between 1982 and 1987.

24 at 95 is not bad either , especially when many of specialists were 30 at 65.

Fact is No cricketer other than Kapil, featured both in top 20 batting ranks and top 5/10 bowlers almost a decade.

 

[sunilz]

Kapil Dev was the best lower order batsman of 80s.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

If people want to rate him on his entire career, then i hope they use this criteria for every ATG cricketer.

IND had the best record in multination tournament in 80s despite being an average side. And Kapil had a huge role in it
Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[harsh.ag]

11 50s. 9 ducks. Illustrates the unpredictability right there. But yeah, easily the best of the 80s.

 

[srbhkshk]

Lance Klusener is a better choice for a lower order all rounder. Watson or Jayasuriya for opening all rounder. Those are the only 3 I would consider for all rounder role in ATG ODI XI. Flintoff has superb numbers but somehow I don't remember anything memorable he ever did.

I think the basic question here is if you are ready to take the risk for your inferior / part time bowler to get absolutely brutalized by the other ATG side you are playing against. This is what brings guys like Kapil or Flintoff into consideration.

 

[shifty_eyes]

I'm in Kapil is overrated camp. His ODI batting was quite hit and miss.

Pretty much.

 

[Bolo]

Which lineup is stronger in batting and bowling?
Flintoff, Pollock, Dev
vs
Jaya/symonds, garner, Mcgrath

 

[smash84]

Which lineup is stronger in batting and bowling?
Flintoff, Pollock, Dev
vs
Jaya/symonds, garner, Mcgrath

definitely the garner mcg et al

 

[h_hurricane]

The few years I saw Kapil play, he was clearly in the decline and messed up his stats. He did not score an ODI fifty in the last 4 years.However ODI cricket is not just about tall scores. A quickfire 30-40 down the order could provide the team with enough momentum to win matches. In 1992 world cup, Kapil had some good knocks like these 35(26), 21(21), 42(29), 33(22). It is wishful thinking, but if there was one more player like this, there was a good enough possibility of reaching semifinals. Instead there were the likes of Shastri eating up too much balls at the top of the order.

 

[marc71178]

I was talking about 6 years between 1982 and 1987.

24 at 95 is not bad either , especially when many of specialists were 30 at 65.

Fact is No cricketer other than Kapil, featured both in top 20 batting ranks and top 5/10 bowlers almost a decade.

Is 6 years now "almost a decade" then? Kapil was in the top 20 for 6 years.

 

[h_hurricane]

Virtually his entire reputation comes from that 175. Can't bat any higher than 8 in an at xi.

He had several other gun performances as well.

Quickfire half century in the semi finals of World Championship of Cricket when the required run rate was getting out of control.
Knocked over top 3 in the finals of the same tournament which helped India win its 2nd global tournament.
Sharjah Cup Final 1988
Hat-trick in Asia Cup final 1991
Hero Cup final 1993

 

[h_hurricane]

I was talking about 6 years between 1982 and 1987.

24 at 95 is not bad either , especially when many of specialists were 30 at 65.

Fact is No cricketer other than Kapil, featured both in top 20 batting ranks and top 5/10 bowlers almost a decade.

This. I would take a player with 24 at 95 any day above some one with 30 at 65. When he scored 175 in the world cup, India won against Zim by a mere 31 runs. Even a 140 from him would not have been enough. This knock and the world cup win changed the face of Indian cricket.

 

[h_hurricane]

Which lineup is stronger in batting and bowling?
Flintoff, Pollock, Dev
vs
Jaya/symonds, garner, Mcgrath

I would take a mixture of both in my team. Pollock, Dev, Akram, Garner and Warne.