*Official* England Tour of West Indies 2019

[SillyCowCorner1]

Chucking: >15 degrees
Over rate: 15overs/hour
Closest bat average to 15.00: 14.65-H.M.R.K.B Herath


A trend

 

[quincywagstaff]

When he was at The Australian, Malcolm Conn used to mean incessantly about over rates. Figures that he would head to cricket admin.

I used to think over rates were an issue but it is really all about whether the cricket is entertaining. Really, it shouldn't be about reaching a certain rare but whether the bowling side is tactically slowing the rates down and the umps clamping down on unnecessary delays.

 

[the big bambino]

Just bowl your mandated overs ffs. Slow over rates are a cynical tactic where the bowling team can pace the tempo of the day to suit themselves. I'd have em bowl 30 a session and they stay out there until they do. No tucker for you.

 

[StephenZA]

I used to think over rates were an issue but it is really all about whether the cricket is entertaining. Really, it shouldn't be about reaching a certain rare but whether the bowling side is tactically slowing the rates down and the umps clamping down on unnecessary delays.

This. Give the umpires something to do.

 

[vcs]

Just bowl your mandated overs ffs. Slow over rates are a cynical tactic where the bowling team can pace the tempo of the day to suit themselves. I'd have em bowl 30 a session and they stay out there until they do. No tucker for you.

This is actually not a bad idea. Bad overrate? You can go without lunch. Only problem is it also penalizes the batting side.

 

[fishyguy]

so whos gonna replace holder probably an allrounder maybe keemo paul. Is Oshane Thomas in the squad think i saw him at the match on day 3

 

[vcs]

This. Give the umpires something to do.

***** thinks they already have too much on their plate for them to be judged on their decision-making..

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

so whos gonna replace holder probably an allrounder maybe keemo paul. Is Oshane Thomas in the squad think i saw him at the match on day 3

Hi fishyguy,

From the looks of things, there will be two changes: Holder and Alzarri out.

Who's gonna replace them?

Keemo Paul is in the mold of a bowling allrounder, so he might replace Holder.
While either Oshane (he's in the squad) or Jomel Warrican gets a go at Alzarri's spot.

OR a left field inclusion of a certain Rahkeem Cornwall; )

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Will be interesting to see if Alzarri Joseph plays, wouldn't blame him if he wants some time off tbh. If he doesn't then both Oshane Thomas and Keemo Paul play, if Joseph is available then Paul will likely get the nod as he offers a lot more with the bat.

All in all, a thoroughly enjoyable pair of Tests. Love seeing some good old fashioned Caribbran pace bowling

 

[hazsa19]

No one, and I mean no one, buys a ticket to a day's play and says "Gotta get my 90 overs in or there's no value." FMD when they used to bowl 100 overs in a day sides would be 3/190 or 200 at stumps. Do you reckon that's more entertaining than 300 getting scored in a day off 85 overs, or a side getting rolled in a day comprising 82 overs? Of course it isn't.

Well yeh, obviously. But of a leading comment though.

In my opinion slow over rates are not as a result of exciting cricket, but of batsman changing gloves 15 minutes before an interval, unofficial drinks breaks, bowling units having committee meetings 10 minutes after an interval etc, all things umpires could and should be clamping down on. These are things that do irritate me, more when I’m watching on tv, but also when I’m at the ground. The climax to one of the Odis between Aus and Ind just recently was painfully slow, and it did ruin my enjoyment of the game. From memory I think Dohni was mostly to blame.

If the ICC punish everyone consistently, and the umpire stamp down on the unnecessary delays, then I don’t see any reason why we can’t have 15 overs an hour with some exciting cricket, even with a 4 man pace attack.

 

[Woodster]

I do agree with comments regarding the role of the umpires. They should be in charge of hurrying things along when it's obvious certain time delaying tactics are in play or if the players genuinely don't realise how long they're taking then the umpires should be there to inform them to hurry up and cut out all the unnecessary stuff. This could be information fed to them by the third umpire as I'm sure they have enough to concentrate on the pitch, but it is easy to tell when a side are labouring through their overs without good reason.

 

[the big bambino]

This is actually not a bad idea. Bad overrate? You can go without lunch. Only problem is it also penalizes the batting side.

I think if batsmen are on top they’d prefer to stay out there rather than start again. I’d also allow them refreshments every other over while the bowling side can look on enviously.

 

[Stefan9]

No one, and I mean no one, buys a ticket to a day's play and says "Gotta get my 90 overs in or there's no value." FMD when they used to bowl 100 overs in a day sides would be 3/190 or 200 at stumps. Do you reckon that's more entertaining than 300 getting scored in a day off 85 overs, or a side getting rolled in a day comprising 82 overs? Of course it isn't.

I do. 90 is the min that needs to bowled, there is actually scope for getting more....The fact that some sides don't even reach the min is a blight on the game.

I do not see the correlation between entertainment and sides failing to meet their min over rates. There would be even more entertainment if we got the full overs in.

The logic is fine but has any spectator or fan really given a crap if they only saw 87 overs in a day or whatever it was? From my perspective, it's an issue only administrators and TV types care about.

I get he was probably warned and we don't want to return to the days when the WI quicks snapped their way through 70 overs a day in the 80s. But now the 3rd Test will be without the world's most in-form all-rounder. Want a way to ensure there will be fewer paying customers at the ground and viewers on the TV...

Same as Faf if they stick to the rules they wouldn't be in trouble. Again 90 is the min that needs to be bowled.

I think if batsmen are on top they’d prefer to stay out there rather than start again. I’d also allow them refreshments every other over while the bowling side can look on enviously.

Umpires and TV crews will complain about missing their lunch...

 

[Beamer]

Hi fishyguy,

From the looks of things, there will be two changes: Holder and Alzarri out.

Who's gonna replace them?

Keemo Paul is in the mold of a bowling allrounder, so he might replace Holder.
While either Oshane (he's in the squad) or Jomel Warrican gets a go at Alzarri's spot.

OR a left field inclusion of a certain Rahkeem Cornwall; )

I'd love Rakheem to play but they're just not going to do it. So the common sense selection is to bring in Keemo Paul for Holder and allow Alzarri Joseph some time off. As St Lucia is by a distance the quickest pitch in the Caribbean nwoadays, I very much doubt Warrican will play. So the team will almost certainly be:

Braithwaite
Campbell
Hope
Bravo
Chase
Hetmeyer
Dowrich (wk)
Paul
Roach
Thomas
Gabriel

 

[Beamer]

I do agree with comments regarding the role of the umpires. They should be in charge of hurrying things along when it's obvious certain time delaying tactics are in play or if the players genuinely don't realise how long they're taking then the umpires should be there to inform them to hurry up and cut out all the unnecessary stuff. This could be information fed to them by the third umpire as I'm sure they have enough to concentrate on the pitch, but it is easy to tell when a side are labouring through their overs without good reason.

I agree with all this. I still think it's not rocket science to get 90 overs in or close to 90 overs in a day though. In the last test West Indies were waaay behind basically because Shannon Gabriel takes 6 minutes to complete an over at best. If he just hurried up even a little bit, it would make a big difference and Jason wouldn't get banned.

 

[vcs]

The offence must have occurred in the first innings, I guess. I don't think England's 2nd innings must have taken more than 3.5 hours. I watched the first two sessions of day 1, but I don't remember noticing it being particularly slow or anything.

 

[Borges]

I agree with all this. I still think it's not rocket science to get 90 overs in or close to 90 overs in a day though. In the last test West Indies were waaay behind basically because Shannon Gabriel takes 6 minutes to complete an over at best. If he just hurried up even a little bit, it would make a big difference and Jason wouldn't get banned.

No one expects quick bowlers to bowl 20-22 overs an hour, like when two spinners are operating in tandem. The indication from recent games is that captains don't get penalised if, on an average, 14 overs are bowled in an hour. That is ridiculously easy to achieve even if quick bowlers are bowling all the time.

 

[Beamer]

No one expects quick bowlers to bowl 20-22 overs an hour, like when two spinners are operating in tandem. The indication from recent games is that captains don't get penalised if, on an average, 14 overs are bowled in an hour. That is ridiculously easy to achieve even if quick bowlers are bowling all the time.

Yep totally. There's no problem with Alzarri, Kemar or Jason himself. It's literally Shannon Gabriel taking ages to complete overs, especially when he was sore on Day 1. He needs to up it and we'll be fine.

 

[Woodster]

If the biggest issue to come out of this series for the West Indies going forward is for Shannon Gabriel to just slightly increase the time it takes to get through an over, they're in a much better state than England!

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

At least Shannon has eased up on the no balls.

Good sign