ODI ATG XIs

[Victor Ian]

Bracken was awesome in ODIs nearly every time I watched him bowl. Starcs been great so far but he might taper off as his bowling seems pretty toothless in tests(then again so was Brackens)

We'll see at the upcoming WC if he's still an ODI beast

When is the last time he played ODI? It seems to me he is either rested or recovering from injury since last WC.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bracken was awesome in ODIs nearly every time I watched him bowl. Starcs been great so far but he might taper off as his bowling seems pretty toothless in tests(then again so was Brackens)

We'll see at the upcoming WC if he's still an ODI beast

I reckon Bracken would have been decent in Tests if given a decent run. It's hard to judge him on 5 games, all against very strong opposition batsmen.

 

[mr_mister]

I remember it was considered a known thing that he couldn't do as much with the red ball, but you're right that he wasn't given much opportunities in tests

 

[Andy1993]

He needed it to swing to be effective, and he hooped the white ball round corners, but was never the same in the longer forms when the ball got old and did nothing

 

[mr_mister]

He has a lot of similarities to Starc except for in the speed department

 

[Bolo]

Keep in mind the idea of average. Average is the average. Wickets do not come every 30 odd wickets. They come in clumps and voids. When the clumps happen, and they will happen, you need a Bevan or Dhoni to get you out of the ****. Even in all time great teams. I would rather someone who knows how to steady the ship because if my great bashers are getting out, one more doesn't solve much, but a finisher will. If the bashers are not getting out - those down the list are not really needed. None of the lower order are.

I've gone into all of these points in prior posts, and I've said that Dhoni and Bevan make my 1st and 2nd teams, so I'm not downplaying the significance of the benefits, I'm just addressing the issues as well.

One thing though- an atg lineup isnt a team of bashers. Some people are including bashers like jaya (I'm not), but the consensus 4 are proper reliable bats who naturally score faster and have varying ability to bash on top of that. If you could clone anyone from the middle order i would pick neither Dhoni nor bevan because the other three are a class above.

 

[Bolo]

He needed it to swing to be effective, and he hooped the white ball round corners, but was never the same in the longer forms when the ball got old and did nothing

He was great at bowling cutters as well. You can use them as a stock ball in odis, but in tests they seem to be best as the odd surprise ball.

 

[Victor Ian]

I've gone into all of these points in prior posts, and I've said that Dhoni and Bevan make my 1st and 2nd teams, so I'm not downplaying the significance of the benefits, I'm just addressing the issues as well.

One thing though- an atg lineup isnt a team of bashers. Some people are including bashers like jaya (I'm not), but the consensus 4 are proper reliable bats who naturally score faster and have varying ability to bash on top of that. If you could clone anyone from the middle order i would pick neither Dhoni nor bevan because the other three are a class above

Yeah. The reason Bevan, Dhoni, Hussey were finishers was because the better batsman played up the order. The consensus 4 would likely be better finishers if they had others to win games up the order. Imagine if you had Kohli to come in and clean up after the top 5 stumbled. I'm with you... because now I have a case to get Ponting back into a world 11 team

 

[Bolo]

Yeah. The reason Bevan, Dhoni, Hussey were finishers was because the better batsman played up the order. The consensus 4 would likely be better finishers if they had others to win games up the order. Imagine if you had Kohli to come in and clean up after the top 5 stumbled. I'm with you... because now I have a case to get Ponting back into a world 11 team

Kohli would be a great recovery guy. Maybe better than Dhoni and Bevan, because he does it faster, but there is a strong argument for picking someone proven.

I reckon Ponting is about as good as Bevan/Dhoni, so its a different case for me. Its not that there were better bats up the order (or hardly any) in the teams these guys played for (or arguably any better bats), just that there are in this team.

So many number 3s. How do you pick the order? Dont want to waste firepower by sending the quickest scorers in too late.

Kohli bats 3 in chases and 6 in setting? Seems plausible.

Who is the 5th bowler here?

 

[trundler]

Klusener + Richards

 

[Bolo]

Klusener + Richards

Thats fine by 5th bowler standards. I wouldn't trust viv too much, but klusenar is better than most of the AR options.

Im not sure his batting is such a good fit here though. Most of his best stuff was digging the team out of a RR hole when chasing, or just slogging a few overs in general. He would be a nice counterpoint to Bevan or Dhoni who face a lot of balls between dismissals, but not as handy here.

Might be the only option though. I dont like the thought of 5 bowlers or a part timer.

 

[trundler]

Down at 7 he'll only have to slog a few and contain runs while bowling.

 

[Bolo]

Ya, I guess he slots in well as a bat- not so many balls to face by the time the top is done. Just more than a Dhoni or Bevan team. Him facing more balls might not be a bad thing anyway- circling back to the start of the debate.

 

[h_hurricane]

My ATG team would look like this.

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Viv
Kohli
ABD
Bevan
Kapil
Wasim
Warne
Garner
Mcgrath

 

[harsh.ag]

Kapil is actually a really good fit for the finisher role 7. His SR for his era is remarkable, even better than Viv's.

His batting seems less reliable than Klusener and Watson and Symonds though. He's probably a good choice if Pollock is at 8.

 

[trundler]

Yeah but he averaged slightly more than Afridi

 

[OverratedSanity]

Pollock at 7 and Kapil at 8 is better.

 

[h_hurricane]

I did some calculations. Based on the no. of deliveries taken by the top 5 to get dismissed on an average, Kapil and Bevan would be at the crease around 44th over. Kapil will have the license to go for the bowling from the word go with Wasim and Warne to follow. Bevan would be batting around them. Pollock was definitely better batsman than Wasim, but his batting may not be required most of the times. Wasim was also a better clutch bowler.

I did not want part timers to bowl hence Symonds went out.
Klusener and Watson are good shouts, but Kapil was a bit better bowler than them. I wouldn't mind any of them in my team anyways.

On a side note, Kapil and Afridi are the only 2 players in history with a batting strike rate 50 % better than their bowling economy rate (min 200 wickets and 3000 runs).

Kapil

Batting strike rate : 95
Bowling runs conceded per 100 balls : 62

Afridi

Batting strike rate : 117
Bowling runs conceded per 100 balls : 77

 

[h_hurricane]

Yeah but he averaged slightly more than Afridi

Some hypothethical scenarios.

10 Kapils in the team will give you 238 runs and restrict opposition to 186 runs in 50 overs.

10 Pollocks in the team will give you 260 runs while restricting opposition to 184.

10 Afridis in the team will just about win you a game ( 236 vs 231).

 

[smash84]

Some hypothethical scenarios.

10 Kapils in the team will give you 238 runs and restrict opposition to 186 runs in 50 overs.

10 Pollocks in the team will give you 260 runs while restricting opposition to 184.

10 Afridis in the team will just about win you a game ( 236 vs 231).

And the 11th afridi will cost you the game