Sarfraz Ahmed Racist Comments Discussion

[Burgey]

Spare me mate. You’re being deliberately obtuse. That or you’re just stupid.

If players aren’t aware of these sorts of things in this day and age it’s their own fault. No one else’s. He’s a senior player and one who’s traveled extensively the world over. He no more has an excuse for what he said than someone from here would if they played in the UAE and called him a P*ki. You’ve an obligation to be a bit informed ffs.
Next thing you’ll be zoraxing it up and defending Gavaskar

 

[TheJediBrah]

Spare me mate. You’re being deliberately obtuse. That or you’re just stupid.

If players aren’t aware of these sorts of things in this day and age it’s their own fault. No one else’s. He’s a senior player and one who’s traveled extensively the world over. He no more has an excuse for what he said than someone from here would if they played in the UAE and called him a P*ki. You’ve an obligation to be a bit informed ffs.
Next thing you’ll be zoraxing it up and defending Gavaskar

So is he a racist **** or just an ignorant dumbass?

If all you're trying to say is that he's the latter then no argument here. It's the implication that he must be a racist because of what he said that's a step too far.

 

[Burgey]

He made a racist comment. Whether it’s a one off act of ignorant stupidity a la Lehmann, or whether he’s an ingrained racist a la Gavaskar or Harbhajan is something you can work out in the fullness of time.

 

[vcs]

I don't get why the distinction between "full-blown racist" and "ignorant dumbass" is relevant (though most people would probably lean towards the latter). He made an unacceptable comment which must be punished.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He made a racist comment. Whether it’s a one off act of ignorant stupidity a la Lehmann, or whether he’s an ingrained racist a la Gavaskar or Harbhajan is something you can work out in the fullness of time.

bull****. If a toddler says "a racist comment" but has no idea what it means is the toddler a little racist? Yes he should know better. He's dumb. That's as far as it goes. He's not going around organising pro-slavery marches and encouraging employers to not hire black workers ffs

I don't get why the distinction between "full-blown racist" and "ignorant dumbass" is relevant (though most people would probably lean towards the latter). He made an unacceptable comment which must be punished.

Yeah fair, but the intent behind the comment should carry a lot more weight than people are giving it

 

[Athlai]

Safraz Ahmed famous toddler.

 

[mr_mister]

Harbajhan getting off was so bullshit.

 

[vcs]

bull****. If a toddler says "a racist comment" but has no idea what it means is the toddler a little racist? Yes he should know better. He's dumb. That's as far as it goes. He's not going around organising pro-slavery marches and encouraging employers to not hire black workers ffs



Yeah fair, but the intent behind the comment should carry a lot more weight than people are giving it

Intent is irrelevant and impossible to establish, we aren't talking about someone with an impressive body of racist speech in the public domain like, say, Trump

 

[Burgey]

Jesus Christ TJB. What a ****ing terrible argument. I hope you don’t have to put submissions together in whatever you do.

This is horrendous, and here’s why.

He’s a ****ing grown man who’s an experienced competitor playing an international sport in a foreign country. Fancy comparing a bloke like that to a toddler who blurts out a racist epithet. This is barely primary school standard debating.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Intent is irrelevant and impossible to establish, we aren't talking about someone with an impressive body of racist speech in the public domain like, say, Trump

intent is everything

It has far more to do with whether a comment is "racist" or not than whether or not someone is offended by it or not

 

[TheJediBrah]

Jesus Christ. What a ****ing terrible argument. I hope you don’t have to put submissions together in whatever you do.

This is horrendous, and here’s why.

He’s a ****ing grown man who’s an experienced competitor playing an international sport in a foreign country. Fancy comparing a bloke like that to a toddler who blurts out a racist epithet. This is barely primary school standard debating.

Do you not get the analogy?

Sarfraz = ignorant, doesn't understand how bad what he's saying is
toddler = ignorant, doesn't understand how bad what he's saying is

not that complicated. Of course he should know better than a toddler. That's not the point.

 

[Athlai]

Jesus Christ TJB. What a ****ing terrible argument. I hope you don’t have to put submissions together in whatever you do.

This is horrendous, and here’s why.

He’s a ****ing grown man who’s an experienced competitor playing an international sport in a foreign country. Fancy comparing a bloke like that to a toddler who blurts out a racist epithet. This is barely primary school standard debating.

Burgey tbf this was the first time he’s ever left Pakistan.

 

[Burgey]

Do you not get the analogy?

Sarfraz = ignorant, doesn't understand how bad what he's saying is
toddler = ignorant, doesn't understand how bad what he's saying is

not that complicated. Of course he should know better than a toddler. That's not the point.

It’s a **** analogy. Like about as bad as you could get.

Ignorance is no defence. He’s the captain of an international cricket team. If Paine went to Islamabad and said “I’d like to thank all you P*kis for your hospitality”, it’s still a racist comment, and it’s offensive. And he would presumably apologise and say he wasn’t aware it was offensive. In which case you can take him at face value but still have the shits because AS THE CAPTAIN OF AN INTERNATIONAL CRICKET TEAM YOU WOULD EXPECT THE **** TO HAVE SOME IDEA ABOJT THE PLACES HE TOURS AND TO WHOM HE REPRESENTS HIS COUNTRY.

Unlike a ****ing toddler

 

[TheJediBrah]

It’s a **** analogy. Like about as bad as you could get.

Ignorance is no defence. He’s the captain of an international cricket team. If Paine went to Islamabad and said “I’d like to thank all you P*kis for your hospitality”, it’s still a racist comment, and it’s offensive. And he would presumably apologise and say he wasn’t aware it was offensive. In which case you can take him at face value but still have the shits because AS THE CAPTAIN OF AN INTERNATIONAL CRICKET TEAM YOU WOULD EXPECT THE **** TO HAVE SOME IDEA ABOJT THE PLACES HE TOURS AND TO WHOM HE REPRESENTS HIS COUNTRY.

Unlike a ****ing toddler

tbh I feel like you're struggling with the concept of an analogy. The comparisons don't have to the exact same. That would defeat the purpose. The point of analogy is that it's comparing 2 different things to allow for ease of understanding. There would be no point if they were the exact same.

As you've pinpointed (and as I've even already explained myself but you must have missed) a toddler and an adult sportsman are very different in how they should act or the responsibility they should take for their actions and comments. The point is that they are both ignorant in this analogy, the levels of ignorance, or what they should know/do is irrelevant.

Tbh my biggest peeve with this is the labelling of an ignorant comment as "racist". With your Tim Paine analogy, if he genuinely had no idea that P*ki is an inappropriate term to use, then I absolutely don't think it's a "racist comment". You need racist intent behind it.

 

[Burgey]

I think you’re struggling to put together an analogy which is approaching appropriate. Certainly comparing him to a toddler is ridiculous.

Sarfraz was ignorant.

A toddler is ignorant.

Sarfraz is like a toddler isn’t he?

Is a **** attempt at an analogy.

 

[Burgey]

No you absolutely don’t need intent behind a comment for it to be racist (or anything else).

 

[TheJediBrah]

Tbh my biggest peeve with this is the labelling of an ignorant comment as "racist".

To expand on this, I really just think that the term "racist comment" should be reserved for genuinely "racist" views and statements. ie. something about races being inferior/superior, judging people based on race, denying opportunities based on race etc.

equating some dumb **** using a word he doesn't understand with that is just dumb IMO

 

[TheJediBrah]

No you absolutely don’t need intent behind a comment for it to be racist (or anything else).

look up "racist" in the dictionary

 

[StephenZA]

Tbh my biggest peeve with this is the labelling of an ignorant comment as "racist". With your Tim Paine analogy, if he genuinely had no idea that P*ki is an inappropriate term to use, then I absolutely don't think it's a "racist comment". You need racist intent behind it.

Coming from SA this is one of the worst arguments you ever have.... unconscious racism is a dire problem in the country, because while people might not truly 'hate' another race, they tar them with a brush built on what the society ingrains into them. It makes it far worse because people don't see how by thinking and behaving (even unconsciously) in a certain manner affects other people. You effectively degrade that person and make them 'less' because in your eyes society has made that acceptable. You don't have to think in extremes to realise when something is racist, racism is not just about being a part of the KKK. And the worst racism is the society ingrained unconscious social racism which people think is 'ok' because intent was not truly malicious and thus excusable. It is never excusable.

 

[Burgey]

look up "racist" in the dictionary

Omg this is horrendous. You don’t need to have a consciously racist thought in your head for a comment to be racist, any more than you need to be consciously thinking in a patronising/ ***ist/ snobbish way when you make comments of that nature.