Which Indian team do you think will win in a 5 test series ?

[OverratedSanity]

I struggle to see any argument for McGrath > Marshall. Marshall was as good as McGrath (if not better) statistically and struck 5-6 balls faster on average.

Here's a decade long stretch of McGrath's where he picked up 130 more wickets than Marshall's entire career at a better average and a very marginally worse SR.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[OverratedSanity]

McGrath was the most consistent cricketer of any kind I've ever seen. Always threatening, always miserly just an absolute machine.

 

[Burgey]

Steyn dealt with flatter wickets and struck faster TBH.

I get it, McGrath's mode of operation was different and no less effective, I just prefer the more destructive bowler in terms of SR if averages are comparable.

Steyn is magnificent. Love him to bits.

Ironically has an MO very similar to Lillee’s too.

 

[vcs]

I'm sure you could do a similar stretch for Marshall and remove a couple of years at the beginning/end and then the difference in SR wouldn't be marginal. Not his fault they played fewer Tests in his era.

 

[sunilz]

Gillespie > Mcgrath in Asia if you consider match winning performances . Mcgrath didn't play in SL tour when AUS defeated SL 3-0 in 2004 . And Gillespie also outbowled Mcgrath in 2004 tour to IND.

 

[Starfighter]

Agreed on what ? The only thing I mentioned was that Lillee has been poor in SC and WI. I did not buy the injury part as it is part and parcel of a sportsman's career. I did not make any reference to the pitch he was playing in that WI series. Burgey did.

Well:

b. the decks in the WI were far more pace bowler friendly then than they are now.
I did not dispute this.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm sure you could do a similar stretch for Marshall and remove a couple of years at the beginning/end and then the difference in SR wouldn't be marginal. Not his fault they played fewer Tests in his era.

My point is that for every stretch like that for Marshall, I reckon there would be a slice of comparable length from McGrath's career that would look just as impressive if not more. Dont think just using overall career avg/SR stats is any kind of indicator who the better bowler is unless its a significant gap.

 

[mr_mister]

McGrath was the most consistent cricketer of any kind I've ever seen. Always threatening, always miserly just an absolute machine.

Abdul Razzaq made him look like a park cricketer that one time

 

[vcs]

5-6 balls is significant in my book. It's replicated across the board (I'm sure Marshall played a lot of County which had most of the top players back then).

Also Marshall was clearly the better batsman which would make me pick him ahead of McGrath in any all-time XI.

 

[h_hurricane]

Well:

I didn't dispute it. Burgey made a note about the WI pitches, I did not argue with any of that since that looked alright to me. My point of conflict was only about Lillee's poor performance in WI in that series. Nothing to do with the pitches.

 

[h_hurricane]

Top 5 pace bowlers since 1970s are absolute locks for me.

Marshall, Hadlee, Mcgrath, Ambrose and Steyn.

Garner, Donald, Imran, Lillee and Akram would make my top ten.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Regarding the pitches in the Caribbean; I was listening to the commentary of the Barbados-Guyana game last week, and heard how Andrew Mason saying that prior to the 07 WC, the Kensington Oval wicket was one of the quickest in the Caribbean.

The same was said of Bourda.


The 2nd ODI match to be played in the Caribbean was WI against India at my home ground (Albion). Gavaskar made 90-something in that game. It was on a Phagwah day.
But Kapil tore WI apart...

 

[h_hurricane]

Regarding the pitches in the Caribbean; I was listening to the commentary of the Barbados-Guyana game last week, and heard how Andrew Mason saying that prior to the 07 WC, the Kensington Oval wicket was one of the quickest in the Caribbean.

The same was said of Bourda.


The 2nd ODI match to be played in the Caribbean was WI against India at my home ground (Albion). Gavaskar made 90-something in that game. It was on a Phagwah day.
But Kapil tore WI apart...

A good article on this match.

It began at Berbice | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo.com

This match and Kapil's knock gave India the confidence heading into the world cup.

 

[Slifer]

Without even looking up the stats, the fastest pitch in the Caribbean (historically) has been Sabina park no questions asked.

 

[Starfighter]

Pretty sure Holding has said before that there were only ever two really fast pitches in WI in his day, Sabina and Kensington. Both of course have been slow, low turning surfaces especially domestically recently.

 

[Burgey]

Without even looking up the stats, the fastest pitch in the Caribbean (historically) has been Sabina park no questions asked.

Has there been any effort to try to return it and others to their former glory?

 

[marc71178]

You do know that even good bowlers look ATG on bowling friendly wickets . For example current Indian pace attack of Bumrah/Shami/Ishant have taken more wickets in a year than any pace attack in history of cricket.

Not sure who Australia had as their third seamer in 1981 but Lillee and Alderman alone took more then that trio did in 2018.

 

[Starfighter]

Not sure who Australia had as their third seamer in 1981 but Lillee and Alderman alone took more then that trio did in 2018.

Any of Pascoe, Lawson, Hogg, Thomson, Whitney etc, it was a good year third pace bower injuries. Pascoe was third taking 16 in three tests before his knees crocked.

Why do these Indian fans like to fabricate history?

 

[Burgey]

Not sure who Australia had as their third seamer in 1981 but Lillee and Alderman alone took more then that trio did in 2018.

Don't befuddle the mythical narrative with facts Marc. It's not fair.

In 1981 the third seamer was probably Lawson. Whitney was called in from Lancashire League at some point on that tour as cover to make his dayboo as well.

 

[Burgey]

All this goes to show is that two Australian quicks are >>>>> than three Indian quicks. I mean, we've all known that for decades anyway, but it's good to nip any suggestion to the contrary in the bud.