*Official* India Tour of Australia 2018/19

[CricAddict]

Also, if Cummins and Haze are locks, we can choose Lyon if Starc is the third bowler, and Ashwin if Bumrah is the third bowler, so that the tail remains short.

 

[morgieb]

Lyon doesn't get in over Ashwin or Jadeja. Even if you could argue that they are on par in terms of bowling, Ashwin and Jadeja's superior batting gets them into the team.

In Australia Lyon is well ahead.

 

[Burgey]

Can we decide it based on the last test and the last Australian tour of India too then, together with the last time they played against each other here? Because in all of those cases Lyon has bowled him off the park.

 

[sunilz]

Question was not on combined team from the first test. Below is the question posed.

What would combined IND/AUS side look like based on current form and available players ?

The bolded part is definitely contestable. I will take Ashwin's batting+bowling over Lyon's batting + bowling. We cannot decide just based on one test.

But in 2018 batting average of Ashwin and Lyon is same.

 

[sunilz]

Ashwin and Lyon have same bowling stats in the matches in which both have played. Jadeja has been the far superior bowler

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

But on current form Lyon is superior player, particularly when it is played in AUS and Ashwin's batting being rubbish.

 

[the big bambino]

Ashwin batted well in the 1st innings and probably assisted in the match winning partnership

 

[Spark]

Jadeja's stats would be much worse if he, like Ashwin, actually had to play in unfavourable/unfamiliar conditions.

 

[Spark]

I think it's a fair argument to suggest that the attack of Cummins/Haze/Lyon/Starc as a whole will function better than Cummins/Haze/Lyon/Bumrah, even tho Bumrah is better than Starc

I don't know if it's a strong argument, but it's valid. Personally I think it depends on the conditions and the kind of batting lineup you're up again. A right-hand heavy lineup with a long tail favors picking Starc. A high-scoring pitch favours Starc. Otherwise go Bumrah.

The thing is though, the benefits that Starc brings just aren't there right now - his wrist position seems off so he isn't really swinging it back into the right-hander (and historically he's never been an amazingly destructive new ball bowler, contra perception) and his line is abject. And Lyon isn't that reliant on the rough; he's always been a perfectly competent first innings bowler. So there's not much reason at the present time to not just pick the better bowler.

I suppose that being a fast left-armer gives you a bit of Johnsonesque "**** gets wickets" factor at times purely from the angle across inducing batsmen into intemperate strokes well outside off stump, but is that really enough?

 

[sunilz]

I may be in minority here , but i think Jadeja will perform better than Ashwin if given chance.

 

[Spark]

Australia is littered with the graves of visiting finger-spinners like Jadeja who rely principally on natural variation off the pitch to get wickets and whose natural length is short enough to be milked square of the wicket on hard Australian pitches.

 

[sunilz]

Bedi, Herath and Ravi shastri have done well in AUS. And this AUS side without Smith is very weak against spin.

 

[Spark]

Herath is a very different sort of bowler to Jadeja IMO.

 

[Burgey]

The thing is though, the benefits that Starc brings just aren't there right now - his wrist position seems off so he isn't really swinging it back into the right-hander (and historically he's never been an amazingly destructive new ball bowler, contra perception) and his line is abject. And Lyon isn't that reliant on the rough; he's always been a perfectly competent first innings bowler. So there's not much reason at the present time to not just pick the better bowler.

I suppose that being a fast left-armer gives you a bit of Johnsonesque "**** gets wickets" factor at times purely from the angle across inducing batsmen into intemperate strokes well outside off stump, but is that really enough?

It's probably enough while he's taking five per match and you're restricting sides to 300 or so max. It becomes fraught in part because Australia's batting is so bad.

 

[cnerd123]

Bedi, Herath and Ravi shastri have done well in AUS. And this AUS side without Smith is very weak against spin.

All three of them relied on beating batsmen in the air more than beating batsmen off the pitch. Jadeja's record is mostly built around beating batsmen off the pitch in friendly home conditions.

I do think he's getting quite underrated here, mind. He hasn't been that bad overseas. His worst figures are in NZ, and around that time he was just bowling badly in general. In England he goes at 42 per wicket but a nice econ of 2.9, he bowled well in his 1 game in SA, and he's still very effective in the slower tracks of WI and SL. He's got more tricks up his sleeve than people like to give him credit for, and he's very consistent if nothing else. May not win a game with the ball, but he'll hold up an end perfectly fine. We've often made the point in the past that Jadeja could actually do a better job than Ashwin overseas. It's not a bad opinon.

But it is really bad timing to bring that up given Ash actually bowled pretty well here. No reason he should be dropped after that performance. Very doubtful Jaddu would be any better.

 

[the big bambino]

India should try and find a way to get Kuldeep into the team.

 

[Spark]

All three of them relied on beating batsmen in the air more than beating batsmen off the pitch. Jadeja's record is mostly built around beating batsmen off the pitch in friendly home conditions.

I do think he's getting quite underrated here, mind. He hasn't been that bad overseas. His worst figures are in NZ, and around that time he was just bowling badly in general. In England he goes at 42 per wicket but a nice econ of 2.9, he bowled well in his 1 game in SA, and he's still very effective in the slower tracks of WI and SL. He's got more tricks up his sleeve than people like to give him credit for, and he's very consistent if nothing else. May not win a game with the ball, but he'll hold up an end perfectly fine. We've often made the point in the past that Jadeja could actually do a better job than Ashwin overseas. It's not a bad opinon.

But it is really bad timing to bring that up given Ash actually bowled pretty well here. No reason he should be dropped after that performance. Very doubtful Jaddu would be any better.

Yeah but the point is that he doesn't play. It's hard to do anything but be dubious about his effectiveness when the team is certainly so, although I guess having a competent fast bowling attack in overseas conditions for possibly the first time ever doesn't help his cause

 

[Arachnodouche]

India should try and find a way to get Kuldeep into the team.

Not sure if serious. But yes, if all our batting was firing. In a low scoring series, he is likely to leak easy runs, even though he has decent control for a leggie. Ashwin deserves another chance off the back of Adelaide though. Guy committed to plans while bowling and batting and was an important cog in the win.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Hypothetically, is it at all possible that Warner and Smith could've been worked out by this bowling attack? Everyone's taking it for granted that the pair would've been all the difference, but they would have had to be fully switched on to negotiate this challenge. Ishant to Smith in particular would have made for great viewing.

 

[Starfighter]

Warner and Smith (despite the former's tendency to give away his innings at frustrating times) are probably more technically sound and definitely better equipped stroke wise for this (or any) attack than any of our other batsmen, hence why they average more (duh). The way Smith moves is very frustrating for any bowler and I think would have disrupted Ashwin in particular. I don't see why Ishant would pose any special challenge compared to any other taller bowler.

 

[Gnske]

I've got one word for you: Rotating the strike

Smith knows the value of a good single and has more tools than a batsman should legally have to achieve a single.