*Official* Pakistan v New Zealand in the UAE 2018

[Immenso]

I look at that batting line up and shudder. When Nicholls is our third best player, I know we have issues. And that freaking tail. I don't know what it is about Nicholls, but I can't warm to him at all. I was a huge fan of Andrew Jones so it's not an aesthetics thing. Maybe it's a provincial one. But I do need to grow up because HN played very well today.

I've gone the opposite on Nicholls.

At the time of the McCullum succession, I viewed him as a temporary over achiever in a purple patch just muddying the waters (I was living every W Young domestic innings that season willing him to break his Flemesque conversion plague).

Now when I watch Nicholls bat I quite like it. I feel he has a plan, and I know he won't Lathamise himself after a few too many dot balls, he has grit, he knows his game. I also know he can miss one by 4 inches early on .... but he doesn't make me nervous like some of them.

He has a batsman's mind, I can relax and watch him bat knowing he's in charge of his own destiny up to the limits of his talent.

 

[Athlai]

Nicholls has quietly become a genuine Test bat which is a nice thing to take away from this match.

 

[NZTailender]

I've gone the opposite on Nicholls.

At the time of the McCullum succession, I viewed him as a temporary over achiever in a purple patch just muddying the waters (I was living every W Young domestic innings that season willing him to break his Flemesque conversion plague).

Now when I watch Nicholls bat I quite like it. I feel he has a plan, and I know he won't Lathamise himself after a few too many dot balls, he has grit, he knows his game. I also know he can miss one by 4 inches early on .... but he doesn't make me nervous like some of them.

He has a batsman's mind, I can relax and watch him bat knowing he's in charge of his own destiny up to the limits of his talent.

Nicholls has quietly become a genuine Test bat which is a nice thing to take away from this match.

He's become a bit Andrew Jones like - or similar to the second coming of Katich, or even Paul Collingwood. people who know their game, their limitations, and will have a way of scoring runs even if it's ugly. We need someone with a bit of grit and determination. he's not a finished product by any means but he's impressed me more on this tour than at any other time in his career.

 

[Neil Young]

I've gone the opposite on Nicholls.

At the time of the McCullum succession, I viewed him as a temporary over achiever in a purple patch just muddying the waters (I was living every W Young domestic innings that season willing him to break his Flemesque conversion plague).

Now when I watch Nicholls bat I quite like it. I feel he has a plan, and I know he won't Lathamise himself after a few too many dot balls, he has grit, he knows his game. I also know he can miss one by 4 inches early on .... but he doesn't make me nervous like some of them.

He has a batsman's mind, I can relax and watch him bat knowing he's in charge of his own destiny up to the limits of his talent.

Yeah, as the poster above said, maybe Andrew Jones like (lite?!). If Nicholls ends up with something resembling Jones' test record, everyone's a winner. I do like a bit of grit, though, and also a player who knows his limitations (whatever they may be).

 

[Flem274*]

you spuds, you could see he had what it took against australia and south africa two years ago. while all your favourite pretty little weaklings like latham and whichever domestic flavour of the month were cruising to 40 and throwing it away henry nicholls was digging in to make scores.

cdg's efforts against england show he's up for a scrap, i just think that he's not sure how to bat in the uae so he's copied ross but because he scored 14 (lol @ me and straw man) instead of 80 he looks like an irresponsible idiot. personally i was glad he was trying to hit hasan off his length. not a bad plan, just should have blocked the one that got him or tried to hit it less hard.

 

[rodk]

The 26,000 seat venue is empty. Maybe a couple dozen people at the game vs New Zealand today, tops, sitting behind the wickets. Otherwise nobody. Why? I understand that Pakistan uses the UAE as its home site. That too seems pretty bizarre. Is it getting a great rental price, or some other inducement? Why would it play home matches outside of its country, especially if the arena is going to be empty? Aren't the players bummed by having no one watching?

I'm a noob to cricket, so someone has to explain to me why teams can score about 200 runs in 20 overs and lose in the IPL (Royal Challengers Bangalore vs Rajasthan Royals) but score only 418 runs in 167 overs in test cricket (New Zealand at Pakistan, today) and win big, by a full innings after declaring itself out in the first innings, essentially taking only 1/4 of its allotted overs. Is it the quality of the hitters or the bowlers? I would think that a team would be prone to score more in the long game because weaker bowlers have to take a turn. TY

 

[NZTailender]

you spuds, you could see he had what it took against australia and south africa two years ago. while all your favourite pretty little weaklings like latham and whichever domestic flavour of the month were cruising to 40 and throwing it away henry nicholls was digging in to make scores.

cdg's efforts against england show he's up for a scrap, i just think that he's not sure how to bat in the uae so he's copied ross but because he scored 14 (lol @ me and straw man) instead of 80 he looks like an irresponsible idiot. personally i was glad he was trying to hit hasan off his length. not a bad plan, just should have blocked the one that got him or tried to hit it less hard.

It's hard to really believe someone is a fighter when most of his series scores read something like 7, 74, 0, 13. His debut series was literally 8, 59, 7 and 2. South Africa was 12, 118, 7 and 0. So he shows up with a gritty, dug in performance once a series, basically. He's done two this series plus a middling innings and was part of the duck-carnage here. So already he's had a more consistent performance than any other series he's been in. If he pulls another 50 out next test you could say he's properly cemented himself.

 

[Neil Young]

you spuds, you could see he had what it took against australia and south africa two years ago. while all your favourite pretty little weaklings like latham and whichever domestic flavour of the month were cruising to 40 and throwing it away henry nicholls was digging in to make scores.

cdg's efforts against england show he's up for a scrap, i just think that he's not sure how to bat in the uae so he's copied ross but because he scored 14 (lol @ me and straw man) instead of 80 he looks like an irresponsible idiot. personally i was glad he was trying to hit hasan off his length. not a bad plan, just should have blocked the one that got him or tried to hit it less hard.

Fire up.

CdG has no clue against quality spin. He's far from being alone among his NZ brethren there, mind, but he's got to show something that suggests he's got half a brain and the stomach for the fight to go with it. I have see little of either from him in this series.

 

[Flem274*]

It's hard to really believe someone is a fighter when most of his series scores read something like 7, 74, 0, 13. His debut series was literally 8, 59, 7 and 2. South Africa was 12, 118, 7 and 0. So he shows up with a gritty, dug in performance once a series, basically.

which is more than what his competitors (latham, broom, santner, whoever else we threw in) ever did against world class attacks, and he was in his first few tests doing it.

yet only one player copped all the calls to be dropped for guys like young who have made a career of 40-60 scores domestically.

he's always copped far too much criticism because he's ugly and we haven't been told he's a wonderkid like kane, ross, latham, santner were marketed as with varying degrees of accuracy.

nicholls is a bloody good player and has been for quite a while. he's not kane, he's not ross, but he's good and one of the best batsmen to play for us since fleming retired (kane, ross, baz, ryder, watling the only ones better)

 

[Athlai]

Santa is a gun.

 

[Neil Young]

Santa is a gun.

The marketing people told me so.

I understand Flem274's irritation, though. I would have felt the same back during the Andrew Jones' halcyon days. Give me a Jones' output vs Rutherford's flashy - and occasional - 35 any day.

 

[straw man]

Wow, 14 wickets for Yasir Shah in the end, congrats to him. Even more amazing considering that in between his huge haul in the first innings and wrapping up the tail in the second, NZ blunted him so that his second innings figures read ~2/130 at one stage.

Obviously the match was lost after begin bowled out for 90 in the first innings and that was pretty ****ful given how well they dug in in the second to demonstrate the pitch was not unplayable. All it needed was ONE guy to dig in with Williamson in the first to make the innings not a disaster. Think it is worth remembering the fielding chances we clanged early when bowling too - maybe Pakistan would still have gone on to score the decisive 400 anyway, but we gave away any chance whatsoever to put them under pressure by dropping those catches. We ran through their tail twice in the first test but you can't do that if you don't even make them bat.

Still though, the upshot of Latham and Taylor scoring runs in the second innings, even if it barely affected the result, is that now every single guy in the top 6 should have confidence that they can contribute this series. Top scores from each batsman:
Raval - 46
Latham - 50
Williamson - 63
Taylor - 82
Nicholls - 77
Watling - 59

Now someone needs to score a hundred in the first innings in the final test. I'm looking at you, Kane. On that note, imagined for a moment this being your typical NZ 2-test series and how ****** that would feel - thank **** for a decider as the first two tests have been great.

The less said about the tail batting the better - 6/57 this time. If De Grandhomme is going to bat like a number 10 then he also needs to be one of the best four bowlers, which he isn't. 0 and 14, fmd. I'm not against the guy, I think he will be useful at home again and that he makes the ODI side too. But he manages to both play French cricket standing in front of his stumps with a toothpick against Yasir Shah and have a Shane Watson sized target on his front pad against Hasan Ali's inswing - just no idea.

Since the squad doesn't have ready made replacements, I would like to drop CDG and Sodhi and bring in all three of Southee, Somerville and Blundell for the final test please.

 

[Athlai]

I've never been on board team Latham or Broom or any of those other blokes, outside of Latham there aren't many blokes Phlegm has named that actually get much support on here.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The 26,000 seat venue is empty. Maybe a couple dozen people at the game vs New Zealand today, tops, sitting behind the wickets. Otherwise nobody. Why? I understand that Pakistan uses the UAE as its home site. That too seems pretty bizarre. Is it getting a great rental price, or some other inducement? Why would it play home matches outside of its country, especially if the arena is going to be empty? Aren't the players bummed by having no one watching?

If I could recall, UAE is sort of a fortress for Pakistan. We don't need to go back and explain why they aren't playing in their country; for obvious reasons.

I'm a noob to cricket, so someone has to explain to me why teams can score about 200 runs in 20 overs and lose in the IPL (Royal Challengers Bangalore vs Rajasthan Royals) but score only 418 runs in 167 overs in test cricket (New Zealand at Pakistan, today) and win big, by a full innings after declaring itself out in the first innings, essentially taking only 1/4 of its allotted overs. Is it the quality of the hitters or the bowlers? I would think that a team would be prone to score more in the long game because weaker bowlers have to take a turn. TY

Different formats. Different balls. Different mindset. A test

 

[straw man]

Right, bring it on: I want to see Rabada, Steyn and Philander matched up against Abbas, Ali and Amir(?).

Simon Doull and Waqar Younis were talking about giving Shaheen Shah Afridi a test debut, which would be very interesting in South Africa.

 

[Neil Young]

Wow, 14 wickets for Yasir Shah in the end, congrats to him. Even more amazing considering that in between his huge haul in the first innings and wrapping up the tail in the second, NZ blunted him so that his second innings figures read ~2/130 at one stage.

Obviously the match was lost after begin bowled out for 90 in the first innings and that was pretty ****ful given how well they dug in in the second to demonstrate the pitch was not unplayable. All it needed was ONE guy to dig in with Williamson in the first to make the innings not a disaster. Think it is worth remembering the fielding chances we clanged early when bowling too - maybe Pakistan would still have gone on to score the decisive 400 anyway, but we gave away any chance whatsoever to put them under pressure by dropping those catches. We ran through their tail twice in the first test but you can't do that if you don't even make them bat.

Still though, the upshot of Latham and Taylor scoring runs in the second innings, even if it barely affected the result, is that now every single guy in the top 6 should have confidence that they can contribute this series. Top scores from each batsman:
Raval - 46
Latham - 50
Williamson - 63
Taylor - 82
Nicholls - 77
Watling - 59

Now someone needs to score a hundred in the first innings in the final test. I'm looking at you, Kane. On that note, imagined for a moment this being your typical NZ 2-test series and how ****** that would feel - thank **** for a decider as the first two tests have been great.

The less said about the tail batting the better - 6/57 this time. If De Grandhomme is going to bat like a number 10 then he also needs to be one of the best four bowlers, which he isn't. 0 and 14, fmd. I'm not against the guy, I think he will be useful at home again and that he makes the ODI side too. But he manages to both play French cricket standing in front of his stumps with a toothpick against Yasir Shah and have a Shane Watson sized target on his front pad against Hasan Ali's inswing - just no idea.

Since the squad doesn't have ready made replacements, I would like to drop CDG and Sodhi and bring in all three of Southee, Somerville and Blundell for the final test please.

12? Go the whole hog and play all 15.

 

[NZTailender]

Since the squad doesn't have ready made replacements, I would like to drop CDG and Sodhi and bring in all three of Southee, Somerville and Blundell for the final test please.

Interesting maths

 

[The Hutt Rec]

which is more than what his competitors (latham, broom, santner, whoever else we threw in) ever did against world class attacks, and he was in his first few tests doing it.

yet only one player copped all the calls to be dropped for guys like young who have made a career of 40-60 scores domestically.

he's always copped far too much criticism because he's ugly and we haven't been told he's a wonderkid like kane, ross, latham, santner were marketed as with varying degrees of accuracy.

nicholls is a bloody good player and has been for quite a while. he's not kane, he's not ross, but he's good and one of the best batsmen to play for us since fleming retired (kane, ross, baz, ryder, watling the only ones better)

Yeah exactly, he hasn’t blown anyone out the water from the get go, but compared to most of the numpties who get a call up he’s been great. I’ve always been a fan from those early series, and am enjoying watching him continue to develop and become more consistent. He’s got an excellent temperament.

 

[Bahnz]

The 26,000 seat venue is empty. Maybe a couple dozen people at the game vs New Zealand today, tops, sitting behind the wickets. Otherwise nobody. Why? I understand that Pakistan uses the UAE as its home site. That too seems pretty bizarre. Is it getting a great rental price, or some other inducement? Why would it play home matches outside of its country, especially if the arena is going to be empty? Aren't the players bummed by having no one watching?

Try googling "2009 Sri Lanka tour of Pakistan".

 

[NZTailender]

which is more than what his competitors (latham, broom, santner, whoever else we threw in) ever did against world class attacks, and he was in his first few tests doing it.

yet only one player copped all the calls to be dropped for guys like young who have made a career of 40-60 scores domestically.

he's always copped far too much criticism because he's ugly and we haven't been told he's a wonderkid like kane, ross, latham, santner were marketed as with varying degrees of accuracy.

nicholls is a bloody good player and has been for quite a while. he's not kane, he's not ross, but he's good and one of the best batsmen to play for us since fleming retired (kane, ross, baz, ryder, watling the only ones better)

Oh phlegm. I admire your dedication to Nicholls but you're way off track here.

His criticism isn't because he's ugly in technique, it's because his ugly technique gets him out in ways that shouldn't happen (see the shovel). Or at least it did in the past. I don't think anyone was saying 'this kid gets results, but he looks ugly while doing so so lets drop him'.

And it's not like no-one has been critical of Latham either, literally the best and only real opening option since Richardson retired, Baz notwithstanding. He has huge temperament issues which get brought up regularly on here when he fails. He has also had decent away tours to England and Australia and averages more overseas than at home, which can't be said of Nicholls. Broom and Santner are irrelevant, one for being rubbish and a fill in and the other because he's an all-rounder. Did anyone ever say Santner>>>Nicholls purely as a batsman?

Nicholls has some way to go. I'd like to see him actively setting up a win or dominating an attack. Back against the wall knocks are one thing, but sometimes (ideally, all of the time) you've got to be the team putting the others against the wall.