The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Bolo]

Rice was likely a better LO bat than Kirsten and Cook. I'm not sure. Leagues behind Pollock, bit he was in decline and retired in the 80s.

Van Der Bijl didn't play the 80s. Le Roux probably ahead though.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I'm sure that Shakib has had that title on multiple occasions.

What makes Kapil's achievement significant is he was playing for a strong team (WC champions)
And he was consistenly a top 5 ish bowler and top 10-15 batsman in the world.

 

[stephen]

What makes Kapil's achievement significant is he was playing for a strong team (WC champions)
And he was consistenly a top 5 ish bowler and top 10-15 batsman in the world.

India weren't that good back then, WC win notwithstanding.

 

[trundler]

India weren't that good back then, WC win notwithstanding.

Exactly this. Kapil was brilliant but being your team's best in 3 disciplines has much to do with the quality of the rest of the side. In terms of all round talen, none can surpass Proctor, not even Botham. Barring Sobers that is.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Exactly this. Kapil was brilliant but being your team's best in 3 disciplines has much to do with the quality of the rest of the side. In terms of all round talen, none can surpass Proctor, not even Botham. Barring Sobers that is.

Procter is the greatest cricketer since Sobers.

Kapil was not just the best in his team, he was among the best bowlers (top 5) and best batsmen (top 10/15) in the world.
I dont see anyone else in this level of allround dominance. So its not just about the team quality.

 

[harsh.ag]

Kapil came down the order and scored quick runs. That doesn't make him a better batsman than someone who opened and scored more centuries and more fifties and had more runs per innings.

It's like saying Klusener was a better batsman than Kirsten.

 

[jimmy101]

Don't worry harsh, you're always going to run into people who worship stats blindly without even bothering to try and find any context for them.

 

[Coronis]

Procter was insane. Love the bloke (obviously). Its a shame, but as he himself once said, "What's a test career, compared to the suffering of millions?" Ranks right up there alongside Hadlee and Imran as a bowler, and a better bat than both.

 

[trundler]

Procter was insane. Love the bloke (obviously). Its a shame, but as he himself once said, "What's a test career, compared to the suffering of millions?" Ranks right up there alongside Hadlee and Imran as a bowler, and a better bat than both.

Yeah as our ownfredfertang so aptly put in one of his articles, isolation had to happen and no reasonable person could say otherwise. I think as far as package/balanced all rounders go, his only rival is Miller. Maybe he was Miller but more disciplined.

 

[Bolo]

Ten Doeschate. The gap between his batting and the next best is greater than anything ever seen (including Bradman, easily), the gap between his bowling and the next best is about as big as any seen before, he was a good fielder (probably makes him the best in his team, I'm not sure). County captain, not an international one.

 

[trundler]

Does Dr Grace qualify? The leading batsman of an age, useful bowler and great thinker of the game by all accounts.

 

[Bolo]

Does Dr Grace qualify? The leading batsman of an age, useful bowler and great thinker of the game by all accounts.

Best bat, bowler, captain and fielder in pre test era.

 

[trundler]

His brother EM Grace was apparently a better fielder but he was certainly high class in all departments. Greatest FC cricketer of all time.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Procter is the greatest cricketer since Sobers.

Kapil was not just the best in his team, he was among the best bowlers (top 5) and best batsmen (top 10/15) in the world.
I dont see anyone else in this level of allround dominance. So its not just about the team quality.

Must have been a very weak period of international cricket if Kapil is in the top 10 batsmen

 

[Bolo]

Must have been a very weak period of international cricket if Kapil is in the top 10 batsmen

Dev averaged 27 for the decade. Somewhat of an exaggeration I think

 

[trundler]

Might as well call Afridi the best of the 00s.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kapil's a pretty overrated ODI batsman on here. He averaged 24 for his career ffs.

 

[AndrewB]

Kapil was the top Indian player in both ODI rankings from June 1983 to August 1985, and for a few other short spells. For most of that time (and for a lot of 1988) he was in the world's top 10 ranked batsmen.

 

[AndrewB]

Rice was likely a better LO bat than Kirsten and Cook. I'm not sure. Leagues behind Pollock, bit he was in decline and retired in the 80s.

Van Der Bijl didn't play the 80s. Le Roux probably ahead though.

Oh, for one-day cricket, yes, Rice has a better claim. As does Hadlee for New Zealand.

 

[a massive zebra]

Best bat, bowler, captain and fielder in pre test era.

Grace was a very capable bowler, captain and fielder but if you were to read contemporary 19th century literature you would see he was not considered pre-eminent in any of these categories.