DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[Bolo]

Perhaps a sliding cut off based on the frequency of games in an era; say, starting at 50 innings for the old timers, and going up to 100 innings for the present.

This, plus a penalty on number of years. Fail either and you get hit. 50 games in 4 years triggers it, but so does 40 games in 20 years to stop your ten year interval problem.

Is the penalty fixed or does it scale according to the extent you fail by?

 

[sunilz]

Wasim in test bowling was equivalent of Dravid in test batting. Both have excellent record overseas , career average comparable to top tier players of their generation. But they are below the top tier players like ( Sachin, Lara) and (Mcgrath,Ambrose) imo.

 

[stephen]

Akram was the best bowler of 90s

He was the best looking quick of the 90s but he was nowhere near the best bowler of the decade.

 

[stephen]

In this analysis Rabada definitely benefits from playing half his tests in South Africa. Still he's had a phenomenal career.

He's overrated in this analysis because he's lumped into the modern era even though he's played in a bowler friendly part of the era despite the entire era overall being batter friendly.

 

[Brian Lara]

It’s quite interesting how Anderson is berated daily for his away record here but rabada’s massive difference in home and away records is overlooked.

 

[harsh.ag]

It’s quite interesting how Anderson is berated daily for his away record here but rabada’s massive difference in home and away records is overlooked.

Mostly cause he's very young imo

 

[Migara]

He was the best looking quick of the 90s but he was nowhere near the best bowler of the decade.

Wasim's best times was 87-94 like.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Wasim in test bowling was equivalent of Dravid in test batting. Both have excellent record overseas , career average comparable to top tier players of their generation. But they are below the top tier players like ( Sachin, Lara) and (Mcgrath,Ambrose) imo.

A better comparison would be Wasim and Viv. Imo

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Just checked Akram stat analysis in cricinfo

1990 jan to 1997 dec

Akram 5 wpm, (240 in 48)
Avg 20.05 (best in the world)
SR 46.4 (2nd to Waqar)

Assisted by Worlds worst fielders.

7yrs is 70% of a normal fast bowlers career

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sorry thats 8yrs

 

[Starfighter]

We don't need to go through the career slicing argument again do we?

 

[trundler]

Yeah this argument has been done to death in several other threads. No need to clog this one up.

 

[Dendarii]

Mostly cause he's very young imo

And possibly because it's a small sample size (which I suppose is a consequence of his age). He averages over 50 in India having only played three matches there, which is almost a quarter of his away games, so that is going to affect his away average. You would expect his average in India (and New Zealand, which isn't great either) to improve on subsequent tours, so while he's always going to have a better home average than away average because of playing in South Africa, the gap will probably close as his career goes on. If it doesn't then there will be justification for criticism of his away record.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

We don't need to go through the career slicing argument again do we?

Player A
10yrs 90 points and 5yrs 70 points
Career - 83. 3points

Player B
10yrs 88 points
Career - 88 points

For me, player A is better and that's how it should be.
Its not like comparing 5yrs peak to 10yrs career.

 

[StephenZA]

And possibly because it's a small sample size (which I suppose is a consequence of his age). He averages over 50 in India having only played three matches there, which is almost a quarter of his away games, so that is going to affect his away average. You would expect his average in India (and New Zealand, which isn't great either) to improve on subsequent tours, so while he's always going to have a better home average than away average because of playing in South Africa, the gap will probably close as his career goes on. If it doesn't then there will be justification for criticism of his away record.

He also debuted in that Indian series....

But the most impressive part of Rabada is that he became the spearhead of the attack, and showed real mental capabilities so young, after Steyn's injury. Even with guys like Abbot, Morkel and Philander around he very quickly became the go to man when SA needed a wicket.

 

[Bolo]

He looked like a child (which he was) that had been thrown to the wolves on his first (and first) tour. Since then, he's been extremely high quality, but he's still a completely different bowler to the first half of his career (excluding that series). He's not like Anderson who is slowly dragging his average down buy the decimal point- he's only had two bad away series in his career, and his away record is already good. Should be looking like a mediocre ATG within a few series if he stays at current levels.

At this moment though the discrepancy between his home and away performances is every bit as bad as Anderson, Kumble etc if measured propotionally, and he's in the same group as all the other HTBs we've seen recently catching a bit of a free ride to the top of the ranking system.

Not that I think it's that meaningful in his case. I'd probably drop him 50 places+ on the length of his career

The absolute top tier of quicks tend to show very little difference between home and away regardless of difficulty of home conditions. I think too much comes down to random circumstances when there is only a run or two in it. I feel like Rabada might show a several run difference. It's not just that home conditions are super easy, but also that he is really well suited to them. If he stays fit and RSA field an attack that complements him, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him end up with the best ever home record, but still a notch below the best on the whole.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Wasim in test bowling was equivalent of Dravid in test batting. Both have excellent record overseas , career average comparable to top tier players of their generation. But they are below the top tier players like ( Sachin, Lara) and (Mcgrath,Ambrose) imo.

I'm not sure that's a very apt comparison. Dravid, fantastic player he was, is a shoe in for an Indian XI and an argument for his generation's XI but wouldn't come up on most people's all time XIs (maybe 3rd/4th team down).

Akram is a genuine contender for 1st all time XI.

 

[Bolo]

I'm not sure that's a very apt comparison. Dravid, fantastic player he was, is a shoe in for an Indian XI and an argument for his generation's XI but wouldn't come up on most people's all time XIs (maybe 3rd/4th team down).

Akram is a genuine contender for 1st all time XI.

Much of what akram brings to the table conpared to other options is bowling variety and a bit with the bat. Bowling vs batting, it's very close. I'd take Akram by a nose, but there are Akram fans who would consider it crazy.

Would anyone rate Pollock over Akram? Identical stats, with Pollock coming from a more bowler friendly country but playing in a tougher era. I'd imagine just about nobody would go for Pollock, but if you include batting, where Pollock is ahead

 

[stephen]

I'd say a better batting comparison for Wasim is Ponting. Definitely an ATG but there were a couple of better operators going around at the same time, even though at times he looked better than all of them.

 

[Dendarii]

Would anyone rate Pollock over Akram? Identical stats, with Pollock coming from a more bowler friendly country but playing in a tougher era. I'd imagine just about nobody would go for Pollock, but if you include batting, where Pollock is agead

Pollock's batting sometimes seems to be forgotten about. Maybe because he spent a lot of time playing with Kallis and Klusener, whose batting exploits overshadowed his.