DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[h_hurricane]

One of the four "favourable track bullies" bowlers you mentioned is not like the others.

Running in hard and bowling all day does not make him better than other three. Taking wickets in alien conditions does. Performing in Asia would have made it. Unfortunately he did not.

 

[h_hurricane]

You talking to me? I was agreeing with you

Sorry about that. Mis intepretation from my part.

 

[vcs]

This is rich coming from you mate. The only time you bob up on here is to have a cry-w@nk about India being hard done by in some spurious way or to accuse another poster of racism by omission. Get in the bin.

I find this post deeply offensive.





The fact that the word "w@nk" has to be spelled like that to get around the swear-filter on here is ridiculous.

 

[h_hurricane]

Anderson is picked to play wherever the game is, Jadeja is left out of the side when conditions are against him.

True. Which is why Jadeja averages 23 and Anderson 26.

 

[Borges]

Of all these aforementioned "favourable track bullies", I have high regard for Anderson.
To his credit, he has not offered assorted excuses and avoided playing in places that were unfavourable to his style of bowling.

 

[stephen]

Running in hard and bowling all day does not make him better than other three. Taking wickets in alien conditions does. Performing in Asia would have made it. Unfortunately he did not.

He had one tour there. Australian and English conditions are pretty different to each other.

And even if he only played in favourable conditions the quality of players he dismissed and the sides he faced was incredible.

 

[h_hurricane]

Of all these aforementioned "favourable track bullies", I have high regard for Anderson.
To his credit, he has not offered assorted excuses and avoided playing in places that were unfavourable to his style of bowling.

Yes. He became better with age and experience and is a good bowler abroad now. Jadeja too might improve. Will be interesting to see how he performs down under(if he gets picked) against a line up minus Smith and Warner. I prefer Kuldeep though.

 

[h_hurricane]

He had one tour there. Australian and English conditions are pretty different to each other.

And even if he only played in favourable conditions the quality of players he dismissed and the sides he faced was incredible.

I am not contesting the quality of players he performed against. He had more than his share of success against Boycott, Richards, Gavaskar etc. However, as proved by DoG in this thread, Jadeja too performed against quality opposition, albeit in Asia. He has also bowled well in Durban and Oval in the few opportunities he got.

Lillee bowled exceptionally well in England, but a true test for a Aussie bowler lies in Kanpur or Faisalabad or Karachi or Chennai. He was mediocre in the few opportunities he got in Asia. Admittedly, the sample size is small. Hence I would not say it is atrocious. But Jadeja's record outside Asia is also hardly atrocious.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think it is a bit disingenuous putting Lillee in the "home track bully" group due to lack of game time. It would be like putting Bradman in the same group as Khawaja because both haven't proved themselves in Asia. (I don't know if Bradman actually did play in Asia much, if at all, but I'm guessing not. Either way you get the point)

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think it is a bit disingenuous putting Lillee in the "home track bully" group due to lack of game time. It would be like putting Bradman in the same group as Khawaja because both haven't proved themselves in Asia. (I don't know if Bradman actually did play in Asia much, if at all, but I'm guessing not. Either way you get the point)

I think his point is that Jadeja is the same

 

[h_hurricane]

I think it is a bit disingenuous putting Lillee in the "home track bully" group due to lack of game time. It would be like putting Bradman in the same group as Khawaja because both haven't proved themselves in Asia. (I don't know if Bradman actually did play in Asia much, if at all, but I'm guessing not. Either way you get the point)

Yes, Which is why it is tough to put Lillee in the same category as Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Steyn and Ambrose. He is still a great bowler(unproven, but not atrocious in Asia).

 

[Coronis]

Yes, Which is why it is tough to put Lillee in the same category as Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Steyn and Ambrose. He is still a great bowler(unproven, but not atrocious in Asia).

So would it be tough to put Bradman in Sachin's category? Asking for a friend.

 

[h_hurricane]

So would it be tough to put Bradman in Sachin's category? Asking for a friend.

Well, nobody is in Bradman category. He is head and shoulders above every one else. That average is sufficient proof of that. Lillee played in Asia and failed (with small sample size). Bradman did not play in Asia.

Lillee vs Jadeja is 23 vs 23. Bradman vs Sachin is 100 vs 54. There lies the difference. Even though everything is not about stats, but that is too huge a difference.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think his point is that Jadeja is the same

He's not really though. Jadeja hasn't missed out on any opportunity to play in non-spinning conditions because of scheduling, or bad luck, or laziness. He hasn't been picked as much as he could because he's been ordinary when he has played in non-spinning conditions.

Yes, Which is why it is tough to put Lillee in the same category as Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Steyn and Ambrose. He is still a great bowler(unproven, but not atrocious in Asia).

Sure but that's a completely different discussion isn't it?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I actually didn't realise Lillee averaged 23 in Tests, thought it was much higher. More and more I'm agreeing that putting Jadeja in a class with him is absurd, and I actually really rate Jadeja for what he does.

 

[h_hurricane]

He's not really though. Jadeja hasn't missed out on any opportunity to play in non-spinning conditions because of scheduling, or bad luck, or laziness. He hasn't been picked as much as he could because he's been ordinary when he has played in non-spinning conditions.



Sure but that's a completely different discussion isn't it?

Yes. it is. We will wait till we get to the Top 10 in this thread

 

[h_hurricane]

I actually didn't realise Lillee averaged 23 in Tests, thought it was much higher. More and more I'm agreeing that putting Jadeja in a class with him is absurd, and I actually really rate Jadeja for what he does.

Fair enough

 

[Migara]

Anderson is picked to play wherever the game is, Jadeja is left out of the side when conditions are against him.

That is because a team can play only one spinner, where as they can play three seamers. If Akram, Imran and Waqar were available for Australia during Lillie's time, Aussies would have dropped Lillie for tour in Asia. Same happens with India, because Ashwin is there. If Ashwin was not around, Jadeja would have been a dead set selection as a spinner.

 

[Burgey]

I am not contesting the quality of players he performed against. He had more than his share of success against Boycott, Richards, Gavaskar etc. However, as proved by DoG in this thread, Jadeja too performed against quality opposition, albeit in Asia. He has also bowled well in Durban and Oval in the few opportunities he got.

Lillee bowled exceptionally well in England, but a true test for a Aussie bowler lies in Kanpur or Faisalabad or Karachi or Chennai. He was mediocre in the few opportunities he got in Asia. Admittedly, the sample size is small. Hence I would not say it is atrocious. But Jadeja's record outside Asia is also hardly atrocious.

These are valid points. One could argue the true test for an offie is Australia and you would presumably mark Murali down given he averages 75(!) here.

 

[h_hurricane]

These are valid points. One could argue the true test for an offie is Australia and you would presumably mark Murali down given he averages 75(!) here.

Yes, that is a black mark in his resume, just like Warne's against India( Murali hasn't been good against India either). Overall I rate Warne marginally higher, but nothing much between them.