DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[jaideep]

Will try to guess the top 15-

1.Muralitharan
2.Hadlee
3.Mcgrath
4.Steyn
5.Warne
6.Imran
7.Marshall
8.Ambrose
9.Wasim
10.Lillee
11.Waqar
12.Trueman
13.Donald
14.Barnes
15.Garner

 

[trundler]

Barnes or Murali would end up with most quality points.

 

[Bolo]

Not a huge change, but the update looks better to me

 

[Bijed]

Johnny Briggs replaces Nathan Lyon in the top 100 for now.

TJB approves of this update

 

[ImpatientLime]

No.33

Ian Botham (England) 778

Quality Points: 665
Career Points: 113

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjSDvdgTOzg

Career: 1977-1992
Wickets: 383
Gold Performances: 6
5/21 vs. Australia at Leeds 1977 (15.94)
8/34 vs. Pakistan at Lord's 1978 (18.19)
7/48 vs. India at Mumbai 1980 (17.54)
6/95 vs. Australia at Leeds 1981 (15.27)
5/11 vs. Australia at Birmingham 1981 (18.92)
8/103 vs. West Indies at Lord's 1984 (16.66)
Silver Performances: 10
Bronze Performances: 11

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 27.74 (28.40) 55.83 (56.96) 4.63
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1977-1980): 19.89 45.77 6.41
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 29.16 59.66 4.12
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.97 57.18 4.64

On the face of it, Ian Botham's overall figures looks relatively ordinary. But he gains a lot of points for a long career and more importantly he had a superb as a young bowler, taking 139 wickets in his first 25 tests. His 50 innings peak is ranked no.21 in the top 100. Most of his gold performances are between 1977-1981 when he was without doubt the best allrounder in the world, perhaps in that incarnation the finest allrounder that every played the game. I can't think of anyone else who had a gold performance with both bat and ball in the same match. If someone has any idea, kindly let me know.

Botham did play on for too long and cost himself a place higher up the list. If he had retired after England's Ashes triumph down-under in 1986-87, he would be ranked at no.30 with 786 points.

worst thing about botham, how much he sucks in cricket games.

all cricket games seem to base players ratings entirely off of their career averages and as a result botham often sucks.

he was the biggest gun slinger england has ever produced. an absolute g.

 

[smash84]

i meant he should be at 101, and hence out of this list

the new adjustments seem much more aligned with my ranking of lyon at least.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

That 7/48 in India seemed (pun intented) like a dolly/.

 

[stephen]

Lyon is a gun and should earn extra points for being the only off spinner in the world to take consistent wickets in Australia.

 

[Burgey]

worst thing about botham, how much he sucks in cricket games.

all cricket games seem to base players ratings entirely off of their career averages and as a result botham often sucks.

he was the biggest gun slinger england has ever produced. an absolute g.

I think the worst thing about Botham is that he's an unspeakable boor.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Harris at 34 wow. He's generally pretty underrated but no. 34 is generous. Not saying he doesn't deserve it based on skills alone but still.

 

[stephen]

Harris at 34 wow. He's generally pretty underrated but no. 34 is generous. Not saying he doesn't deserve it based on skills alone but still.

He's dropped to 36 now.

Generous perhaps, but Harris only really played against quality opposition and maintained an excellent strike rate and average over his 5 year career.

His heroics against South Africa were the perfect end note to any career.

Harris was the hero we needed.

 

[stephen]

worst thing about botham, how much he sucks in cricket games.

all cricket games seem to base players ratings entirely off of their career averages and as a result botham often sucks.

he was the biggest gun slinger england has ever produced. an absolute g.

This is really why cricket video games don't appeal to me. Everyone is reduced to a stats generator. Reality is a lot more interesting than that. To me the battle is more important than the result. Cricket is a narrativist sport, not a ludologist sport. A ludologist sport would maintain consistent conditions throughout like baseball. But cricket isn't like that. Things aren't always fair in cricket. Every test tells a different story, players becoming villains and heroes. The ebb and flow of the game weaving a tapestry unmatched by any other sport played by humankind.

In many ways cricket is closest to the romanticized view of warfare, popularised by the classical writers. It's not fair, things happen, Achilles gets shot in the heel. The gods intervene. Legends emerge and the tiniest moment can have the largest impact on the tale that is told.

Cricket is as close as we get to reliving the epics. It's not a game, it's a drama, an experience, an epic tale of tragedy and triumph, told over generations. It carries with it history, legacy and tradition.

To reduce this to electronic simulation is missing the beating heart of what makes cricket the greatest sport of all.

 

[stephen]

This is why the saddest thing about cricket moving stations is that we lose the fantastic channel 9 music/intro/outro sequences overlaid with Benaud/Lawry commentary moments.

Yes I hated what the channel 9 commentary team had become, but those wide world of sports sequences were a signal that we were experiencing history, that joy and pain were about to erupt from our tv screens. They were a link to the memories of old and the creation of new history.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

How the hell can anyone in their right mind rate Lyon behind that parasite Kaneria. Absurd.

 

[smash84]

How the hell can anyone in their right mind rate Lyon behind that parasite Kaneria. Absurd.

DoG can

 

[GoodAreasShane]

DoG can

Baffles me. Never really rated Kaneria even before he was found out to be a fixer

 

[Days of Grace]

Baffles me. Never really rated Kaneria even before he was found out to be a fixer

Kanera had more impact on matches than Lyon has.

Kaneria: 8 match winning 5-fors in 61 matches
Lyon: 6 match winning 5-fors in 79 matches

This and other factors result in a higher PPI for Kaneria than Lyon (4.56 vs. 3.93).

I have no doubt that Lyon will overtake Kaneria in the next year or so if he keeps a reasonable standard of bowling.

 

[Days of Grace]

Important: Need your help and opinion

I'm still not sure of the ratio of wickets vs. career length.

Please give your opinion. Should they be equal or should wickets taken be more important.

For example,
Player A: 10 year career, injured a lot or plays in an earlier era, takes 100 wickets
Player B: 5 year career, 200 wickets.

Who should get more points, or should they get the same amount?

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Kanera had more impact on matches than Lyon has.

Kaneria: 8 match winning 5-fors in 61 matches
Lyon: 6 match winning 5-fors in 79 matches

This and other factors result in a higher PPI for Kaneria than Lyon (4.56 vs. 3.93).

I have no doubt that Lyon will overtake Kaneria in the next year or so if he keeps a reasonable standard of bowling.

Thanks for the explanation, I can now see your perspective more looking from a statistical point of view. For the record I mean you absolutely no offence, have certainty enjoyed this whole exercise so far

 

[jaideep]

I think ratio of wickets and career length should be same.Otherwise its in favour of modern players who play a lot.In your specific example both player A and player B should get equal points.