DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[trundler]

for sure, bowling pace has gone up significantly in general, especially if the footage from the pace contest in Aus in 1979 is anything to go by. Imran clokced 3rd over there with 139 km/h. So at his usual pace he must be bowling early 130s I reckon. Fazal b/w 110-120 sounds about right

That was a different methodology if I'm not wrong. Now they measure the speed out of the hand. I don't doubt that bowling speeds have gone up generally but not by enough to make guys from Imran's time look medium paced in comparison. The fastest bowlers from that era don't look much slower than recent express bowlers.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Is it the change in Earth's temperature that cause bowling speeds to go up...and obviously high quality speed detecting instruments.

At what point does all of this breaks down?

 

[Starfighter]

What speed do you think the likes of Bedser and Fazal bowled at?

120, maybe a little faster occasionally.

As bowling speeds have obviously increased

for sure, bowling pace has gone up significantly in general, especially if the footage from the pace contest in Aus in 1979 is anything to go by. Imran clokced 3rd over there with 139 km/h. So at his usual pace he must be bowling early 130s I reckon. Fazal b/w 110-120 sounds about right

From cricinfo:

1975 Study
The following speeds were measured at the WACA ground in Perth in December 1975, using "very accurate high speed cameras" and reported in the book "The Art of Fast Bowling" by DK Lillee, pp 27-30.

Player	Kph	Notes
Jeff Thomson	160.45
Jeff Thomson	160.45
Andy Roberts	151.49
Michael Holding	150.67	age 22
Dennis Lillee	148.54	sick at the time

1976 Study

Player	Mph	Kph
Jeff Thomson	99.8	160.6kph
Andy Roberts	97.8	157.4kph
Dennis Lillee	96.2	154.8kph
Michael Holding	95.2	153.2kph
Wayne Daniel	93.7	150.8kph
Bob Willis	90.7	145.9kph
Alan Ward	86.5	139.2kph
John Snow	86.2	138.7kph

I've tended to the line of thinking that the WSC pace contest speeds were anomalously low for some reason.

I also tend to the opinion that higher-end pace hasn't increased since the sixties.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

It might have been the shortest of peaks, but I don't remember any bowler ever (from my time, 90s onwards) being THAT devastating as Mitch was.

Early Waqar is only thing I can put alongside it and that was a different style anyway but equally destructive.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I don't buy for a second that there has been some dramatic leap in pace for fast bowlers over time. Here in Australia I would go as far as saying your average Sheffield Shield pacer is absolutely no quicker than their counterparts from 20 years back, in some cases even a good yard slower

 

[Victor Ian]

The only thing that might have increased pace wise is the volume of faster balls, due to greater fitness. I can't see any justification in the effort ball being faster today.

 

[stephen]

The only thing that might have increased pace wise is the volume of faster balls, due to greater fitness. I can't see any justification in the effort ball being faster today.

Shoe technology may have helped slightly. Increased cushioning has probably meant fast bowlers can sustain their top speeds longer with less wear and tear on their bodies.

 

[Adders]

Shoe technology may have helped slightly. Increased cushioning has probably meant fast bowlers can sustain their top speeds longer with less wear and tear on their bodies.

Aren't these hi-tech shoes available in Australia?

 

[Migara]

Woosh. Too low. I would have thought some of his 4 fivers n 2 back to back tests against India in India in 98 would be ranked as Gold performances.

I'd put those two as platinum.

 

[Migara]

So about 110-120kph, about Nathan Astle or Paul Collingwood pace but obviously a lot more skillful?

Nathan Astle was bloody skillful. Conventional or reverse swing, out or in with identical, smooth action. Never tried to bowl it little quicker than he used to. At 75mph instead of 70 would have made him more dangerous.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Can someone give us the list of the bowler that dog picked?

from 1-100?

 

[ankitj]

Can someone give us the list of the bowler that dog picked?

from 1-100?

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...-countdown-thread-100-1-a-17.html#post4099189

Five more have been listed since then.

40 Mohammed Asif
39 Bob Willis
38 Mitchell Johnson
37 Makhaya Ntini
36 Fazal Mahmood

 

[Days of Grace]

No.35

George Lohmann (England) 774

Quality Points: 727
Career Points: 47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIappMLGiJ4

Career: 1886-1896
Wickets: 112
Gold Performances: 4
7/36 vs. Australia at The Oval 1886 (15.31)
8/35 vs. Australia at Sydney 1887 (17.61)
8/7 vs. South Africa at Port Elizabeth 1896 (20.41)
9/28 vs. South Africa at Johannesburg 1896 (20.06)
Silver Performances: 4
Bronze Performances: 1

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 17.30 (10.76) 46.77 (34.20) 6.36
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1886-1896): 17.30 46.77 6.36
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 13.81 40.71 8.84
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: no matches against quality opposition

"He bowled at around medium pace and on English pitches of his time could gain spin, so that when rain affected the pitch he was unplayable. Against the best batsmen, too, Lohmann possessed skill and guile, and he could vary his pace, flight and break deceptively, so as to worry batsmen on better pitches" (Wikipedia).

It says a lot that despite such a large adjustment, George Lohmann's bowling average is still the lowest of anyone in the top 100. And noone can come close to his non-home record. Lohmann ultimately didn't finish higher than no.35 because he played no matches against quality opposition (Australia in his time were a weak side, achieving only 6 wins from 25 matches against England during Lohmann's career).

Lohmann is one of only two bowlers to achieve two 20.00+ performances, the other being Jim Laker. Laker achieved his in the same match, whereas Lohmann did it in two consecutive matches in South Africa in his last year of test cricket before he succumbed to tuberculosis. He may have achieved 200 test wickets and beyond if he had stayed in good health, which would have taken more than quarter of a century to beat.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Surprised Lohmann isn’t in the teens, also surprised by both Lindwall and Ntini. I feel all three are in the wrong spots. Otherwise thoroughly enjoying it all.
I’m sure it’s a simple case of can’t have 50 players inside the top ten.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.34

Ryan Harris (Australia) 774

Quality Points: 742
Career Points: 32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scww3qeYvAU

Career: 2010-2015
Wickets: 113
Gold Performances: 1
6/47 vs. England at Perth 2010 (16.29)
Silver Performances: 3
Bronze Performances: 2

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 21.35 (23.52) 52.00 (50.76) 4.67
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2010-2014): 20.73 50.63 4.80
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 20.57 48.19 4.88
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 20.71 51.02 4.85

Considering his lack of test matches due to chronic knee trouble and the fact that he made his test debut at the age of 30, Ryan Harris has done superbly well to rank in the top 40. A superb record across the board. 23 of his 27 test matches were played against quality opposition.

 

[Starfighter]

Heh.

 

[smash84]

wow, didn't think he would end up so high, as good as he was

 

[stephen]

Deservedly so. Harris was an absolute beast.

 

[Burgey]

Dat Cook ball tho

 

[Days of Grace]

No.33

Ian Botham (England) 778

Quality Points: 665
Career Points: 113

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjSDvdgTOzg

Career: 1977-1992
Wickets: 383
Gold Performances: 6
5/21 vs. Australia at Leeds 1977 (15.94)
8/34 vs. Pakistan at Lord's 1978 (18.19)
7/48 vs. India at Mumbai 1980 (17.54)
6/95 vs. Australia at Leeds 1981 (15.27)
5/11 vs. Australia at Birmingham 1981 (18.92)
8/103 vs. West Indies at Lord's 1984 (16.66)
Silver Performances: 10
Bronze Performances: 11

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 27.74 (28.40) 55.83 (56.96) 4.63
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1977-1980): 19.89 45.77 6.41
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 29.16 59.66 4.12
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.97 57.18 4.64

On the face of it, Ian Botham's overall figures looks relatively ordinary. But he gains a lot of points for a long career and more importantly he had a superb as a young bowler, taking 139 wickets in his first 25 tests. His 50 innings peak is ranked no.21 in the top 100. Most of his gold performances are between 1977-1981 when he was without doubt the best allrounder in the world, perhaps in that incarnation the finest allrounder that every played the game. I can't think of anyone else who had a gold performance with both bat and ball in the same match. If someone has any idea, kindly let me know.

Botham did play on for too long and cost himself a place higher up the list. If he had retired after England's Ashes triumph down-under in 1986-87, he would be ranked at no.30 with 786 points.