DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[OverratedSanity]

How the hell do you pronounce that?

Whapoojh imo

 

[Starfighter]

(N.B. title is very hyperbolic)

 

[FBU]

No.39

Bob Willis (England) 749

Quality Points: 657
Career Points: 93

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTHIZVIDHiM

Career: 1971-1984
Wickets: 325
Gold Performances: 3
7/78 vs. Australia at Lord's 1977 (15.20)
8/43 vs. Australia at Leeds 1981 (21.79)
6/101 vs. India at Lord's 1982 (15.28)
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 11

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 24.82 (25.20) 51.70 (53.41) 3.91
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1976-1978): 20.11 45.97 4.91
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.89 58.94 3.01
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.81 49.48 4.09

A workhorse of a bowler, Bob Willis kept pounding in off an exceedingly long run-up for 13 years for England, garnering almost 100 career points. His average and strike-rates are just below ATG level and he loses points for not being as effective away from home (149 wickets in 49 matches). Nevertheless, he deserves his place in the top half of this list. And who can forget Headingley 1981?

1 SCJ Broad 8 15 Australia Nottingham 2015 22.75
2 JC Laker 10 53 Australia Manchester 1956 21.92
3 GD McGrath 8 24 Pakistan Perth 2004 21.85
4 RGD Willis 8 43 Australia Leeds 1981 21.79
5 JC Laker 9 37 Australia Manchester 1956 21.36
6 A Kumble 10 74 Pakistan Delhi 1999 20.88
7 RJ Hadlee 9 52 Australia Brisbane 1985 20.77
8 DW Steyn 6 8 Pakistan Johannesburg 2013 20.73
9 GA Lohmann 8 7 South Africa Port Elizabeth 1896 20.41
10 JM Patel 9 69 Australia Kanpur 1959 20.15

A commentator on TMS was asking the stats man about no balls which were not included in a bowler's stats years ago.

Bob Willis 939 no balls and 19 wides came to 978 runs. If they were added to his figures his bowling average would have been 28.20 instead of 25.20.

I doubt if other bowlers had so many no balls to change their figures that much. I think Holding had none.

 

[Brian Lara]

(N.B. title is very hyperbolic)

Bumble, what a legend.

 

[Starfighter]

A commentator on TMS was asking the stats man about no balls which were not included in a bowler's stats years ago.

Bob Willis 939 no balls and 19 wides came to 978 runs. If they were added to his figures his bowling average would have been 28.20 instead of 25.20.

I doubt if other bowlers had so many no balls to change their figures that much. I think Holding had none.

Those stats are doubtful. I've got a figure of 762 no-balls for Willis from Charles Davis, which includes no-balls off which no runs were scored, which have sometimes been counted against the bowler, and no-balls off which runs were scored, which didn't have a one-run penalty added until the late nineties (thus leaving odd meaningless runs in the score). And wides afaik are added to a bowlers tally. Conventions for scoring no-balls varied by country and time. If you want to apply that to Willis then you need to adjust everyone's averages, and that's without accounting for the dramatic rise in calls under the front foot rule, or the very high number of non-called no-balls in the decade or so.

Scorers often didn't assign no balls on the card individually before very recently, so it seems more like a furphy that Holding had none, you'd have to go through all the ball-by-ball sequences where available to check.

 

[Bolo]

When did no balls start counting against the bowler on scorecards?

 

[Starfighter]

When did no balls start counting against the bowler on scorecards?

It varies, but I think it was standardised in the late nineties.

 

[harsh.ag]

What the hell, I had no clue. Another reason to treat the stats with a pinch of salt.

 

[Starfighter]

That's nothing, just the consequence of building rules over time without perhaps considering their context very well. If you want real chicanery check out the second story from the 7th of January this year.

 

[Brian Lara]

What the hell, I had no clue. Another reason to treat the stats with a pinch of salt.

Sure, but people were complaining that these lists favour modern bowlers, well maybe it’s a fair trade off for the no ball issue

 

[andmark]

That's nothing, just the consequence of building rules over time without perhaps considering their context very well. If you want real chicanery check out the second story from the 7th of January this year.

Do I understand this correctly as meaning the ball went through the gap in the stumps? Incredible if true.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Do I understand this correctly as meaning the ball went through the gap in the stumps? Incredible if true.

The Mushtaq ball? yep

I think Starfighter was referring to the Kirsten hundred story though... that's incredible if true

 

[andmark]

The "wicket" was an even better story though haha.

 

[Starfighter]

I think Starfighter was referring to the Kirsten hundred story though... that's incredible if true

Yep. They quite openly fudged Kirsten a century he didn't actually score. In 1997.

 

[Bolo]

Here's my list of people I'm expecting to make the list, but I'm clueless about where they will come. Could be the next 6 or close to the top. There is one Easter egg in here who it wouldn't particularly surprise me to not make the top 100 at all. Guesses on who that is?

Botham, Rabada, Kumble, Tayfield, Grimmett, Lohmann.

 

[FBU]

When did no balls start counting against the bowler on scorecards?

HowSTAT
Prior to 1983 only runs scored off the bat were debited against bowlers. That year saw the introduction of a rule that debited No Balls and Wides against bowlers.
However, the new rule was not introduced uniformly in every test playing country. The following table shows the date of the first match played in each country with the new rule being applied.
Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are not shown as the rule was introduced prior to their first test matches.

Australia 11th November, 1983
England 13th June, 1983
India 14th September, 1983
New Zealand 18th January, 1985
Pakistan 17th October, 1984
South Africa 13th November, 1992
Sri Lanka 30th August, 1985
West Indies 2nd March, 1984

 

[Days of Grace]

The Mushtaq ball? yep

I think Starfighter was referring to the Kirsten hundred story though... that's incredible if true

Haha. What is the width of a cricket ball vs. the gap between stumps?

I just did some research. A cricket ball is just over 7cm in diameter and the gap between two stumps shouldn’t be much larger than 6cm.

So Hansie must have set the stumps up at break in play.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.38

Mitchell Johnson (Australia) 753

Quality Points: 673
Career Points: 80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzNS2JgNxZE

Career: 2007-2015
Wickets: 313
Gold Performances: 5
8/61 vs. South Africa at Perth 2008 (16.82)
6/38 vs. England at Perth 2010 (16.47)
7/40 vs. England at Adelaide 2013 (17.58)
7/68 vs. South Africa at Centurion 2014 (18.21)
5/59 vs. South Africa at Centurion 2014 (16.23)
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 4

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.64 (28.41) 52.70 (51.12) 4.66
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2012-2015): 21.57 44.84 5.39
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.93 59.11 3.90
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.78 52.73 4.84

Before Brisbane in November 2013 Mitchell Johnson was seen as an inconsistent bowler capable of spells where he could run through lineups like a battering ram and other efforts where he would go for over 5 an over.

Before Brisbane 2013 Johnson had an overall rating of 662, enough to just get him into the Top 100.

Brisbane and the summer of 2013-2014 where he took 59 wickets in 8 matches (at a PPI of 9.25!) changed everything. He now sits inside the top 40 bowlers of alltime, well deserved after an unforgettable comeback.

 

[Burgey]

Best summer of pure fast bowling I’ve seen. Was incredible.

 

[_00_deathscar]

It might have been the shortest of peaks, but I don't remember any bowler ever (from my time, 90s onwards) being THAT devastating as Mitch was.