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CW decides the greatest test spinner ever. 43 names: Countdown/Rankings thread

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
13th. Rangana Herath, 226 points




Featured on 23 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 4th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 4th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 13th of 43 (4.67)



I talked about how unlucky MacGill was earlier, but Herath can consider himself even more unfortunate even though he managed to take 430 wickets. He only played 14 tests before the age of 30 due to Murali having an obvious monopoly on the lead spinner role for Sri Lanka. When he did play it was only to hold up one end so Murali could work his magic at the other. After Murali's retirement though Herath went from apprentice to master and has had an amazing back half to his career. At 40 years old he'l still be around for a few more months on the test scene, recently announcing his retirement will likely be in November after an England series.

Herath could have easily taken 600+ wickets if it wasn't for Murali and in the last few years especially he's bowled Sri Lanka to countless victories at home. On those dustbowls he is unplayable in a 4th innings. In 2016 especially he was a juggernaut, taking 57 wickets from 9 matches @ the cost of 18.9 a scalp. This included a 28 wicket series against Australia where he bowled SL to a huge series victory with a very young team and was responsible for constant batting collapses by the tourists. He's taken an enormous 34 test five fers and sits at 5th on the all time list. He only needs 3 more to reach 2nd spot, occupied by Warne. It's possible he'll get there considering he really has such little competition for wickets.

However it's not all positive reading. His overall average is a tick under 28, no doubt helped by playing three quarters of his test cricket in Asia where he averages 25. In several parts of the world he's failed to make an impact, averaging over 40 in 5 separate countries. I personally feel this is a bit of a mark against the man and think he may have slighted benefited from being such a fan favorite on CW in this exercise. But there is a lot to love about a 38 year old stocky man running through sides on a regular basis.
 
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Migara

International Coach
I'd venture to the opinion of MacGill being better than Qadir. Way better actually.
Nope. MacGill would have got destroyed if he bowled to the subcontinet batting ineups in 90s, who were brilliant in playing spin. Even when their spin playing prowess waned as teams, MacGill was trash, home and away against them. Qadir decimated best of batting line ups at least at home. He was trash against India, but did very well against WI. So no, Qadir is a better bowler, but these two are very similar in the way they operated. Lot of jaffas, and lot of rank trash.
 

Migara

International Coach
Herath was the first modern bowler after Gleeson to deliver the carom ball. Now rarely used, but he bamboozled Aussies in '99 series with it. Later Mendis, Ashwin and few others picked it up.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
By 'bamboozled' I assume you mean 'took only six wickets in two matches at an average of over thirty'. Hardly Iverson-like.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nope. MacGill would have got destroyed if he bowled to the subcontinet batting ineups in 90s, who were brilliant in playing spin. Even when their spin playing prowess waned as teams, MacGill was trash, home and away against them. Qadir decimated best of batting line ups at least at home. He was trash against India, but did very well against WI. So no, Qadir is a better bowler, but these two are very similar in the way they operated. Lot of jaffas, and lot of rank trash.
If someone takes the bait, they are worse than Migara
 

Bolo

State Captain
If Herath had been at his peak in the 2000s without Murali for competition and wickets had played out the same way as they did for Murali, what would he have been averaging at home?
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If Herath had been at his peak in the 2000s without Murali for competition and wickets had played out the same way as they did for Murali, what would he have been averaging at home?
Going from what I know of SL's pitches then, maybe 26-ish?
 

Bolo

State Captain
26 feels pretty close to current 23. I feel like that would just about be the difference in batting quality by era without taking the pitches into account. IDK though
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
If Herath had been at his peak in the 2000s without Murali for competition and wickets had played out the same way as they did for Murali, what would he have been averaging at home?
Sri Lankan pitches have actually become more spin-friendly in recent years, the Colombo grounds used to be some of the flattest in the world until they realised they couldn't just bowl Murali all day.
 

trundler

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Chandra and Gupte outside the top 10 is very, very surprising. I'm struggling to think of 13 blokes who were possibly better.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
#12th. Bishen Bedi, 234 points





Featured on 29 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 6th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 3rd of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 24th of 43 (3.97)



Bishen Bedi ranks as the highest of the Indian spin quartet and the 3rd best left handed slow bowler of all time. He's featured on 29 lists and at this point that's par for the course for the remaining names. Everyone left in this list featured heavily in most people's rankings.

Bedi was said to be a master of variations in loop, spin, flight and pace all without a discernible change in bowling action, which was a pretty one. He played the most tests, took the most wickets and had the lowest average of the whole quartet and truth be told he's the most recognisable name of that bunch IMO. He averaged 27.5 on the unhelpful decks of Australia and took 5 wickets per test down here, a very impressive achievement. He averaged a little under 24 on the turning pitches at home and was the star in many an Indian series victory. He had a terrific peak late in his career, taking 90 wickets in 17 tests @ 21 through '76-77.

Like Chandra his single series against rivals Pakistan was a disappointment, averaging 74.8 in a 3 test series in the same '78 series Chandra failed in. Without looking I'll assume India must have got rekt that series. Other than that it was only in England where he had a noticeably poor record, averaging 38 from 12 tests. Everywhere else and against everyone else he was more than capable.

Bedi was always an outspoken, controversial figure and he's had a lot of gripes with the modern game, most notably his total rejection of Murali as a test bowler. He's referred to Murali as taking '800 run-outs' and risked exposing himself as a little jealous and bitter. But on the field his reputation was a grand one.
 
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Bolo

State Captain
Sri Lankan pitches have actually become more spin-friendly in recent years, the Colombo grounds used to be some of the flattest in the world until they realised they couldn't just bowl Murali all day.
For sure. Plus batsmen are garbage now. I'm wondering how much of Heraths awesome performances at home are related to changing times, and how much he is just a boss at home.

His home run has been ridiculous, while he has been very ineffective away. I can see why Ashwin and Jadeja have records like this, but I'm not so sure with Herath.

Then maybe 27-28.
No idea. Migara/ someone who has seen a lot of Lanka, any thoughts?
 
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OverratedSanity

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Bedi was always an outspoken, controversial figure and he's had a lot of gripes with the modern game, most notably his total rejection of Murali as a test bowler. He's referred to Murali as taking '800 run-outs' and risked exposing himself as a little jealous and bitter.
I wouldn't say he's jealous, since he has no hesitation in saying he considers Warne the greatest ever. He's just a bit of a ****.
 

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