the big bambino
International Captain
He could’ve and if he toured England most likely would be considered an ATG.
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CW decides the greatest test spinner ever. 43 names: Countdown/Rankings thread
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
In that case Sydney Barnes is worthy of that title more than anyone else IMO.
Borges
International Regular
Something obvious and not great about CricketWeb.
Vettori has a significantly better away record than Harbhajan despite his record taking a bruising from playing on so long as a batting allrounder. Purely as a bowler, Harbhajan obviously achieved a lot more than Vettori, but there's a more than reasonable argument in favour of Vettori being the better bowler.
So little common ground to compare most of these bowlers on as well. You could practically pick any two so far and put in a reasonable argument that either of them was twice the bowler the other was.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
26th. Johnny Briggs, 54 points
Featured on 10 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 4th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 8th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 33rd of 43 (3.58)
A bowling buddy of Peel, Briggs finishes the highest out of those who played the majority of their cricket in the 1800s. He averaged a very impressive 13.6 at home and 17.7 overall. His brightest moment was against the minnows of his time, South Africa, where he ran through them for 15/28, at even a better rate than Ironmonger ran through them 40 years later(though against a much weaker side). His career average was a crazy 7.9 after his first 15 tests but as he entered the 1890s he did fall off a bit, averaging 26 for that decade and 41 from 1895 to 1899. Whether this was due to his age(likely) or the fact that his bowling wouldn't have been as a effective in the 1900s when the pitches starting improving is up in the air.
Featured on 10 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 4th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 8th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 33rd of 43 (3.58)
A bowling buddy of Peel, Briggs finishes the highest out of those who played the majority of their cricket in the 1800s. He averaged a very impressive 13.6 at home and 17.7 overall. His brightest moment was against the minnows of his time, South Africa, where he ran through them for 15/28, at even a better rate than Ironmonger ran through them 40 years later(though against a much weaker side). His career average was a crazy 7.9 after his first 15 tests but as he entered the 1890s he did fall off a bit, averaging 26 for that decade and 41 from 1895 to 1899. Whether this was due to his age(likely) or the fact that his bowling wouldn't have been as a effective in the 1900s when the pitches starting improving is up in the air.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
25th. Colin Blythe, 59 points
Featured on 10 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 4th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 7th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 7th of 43 (5.26)
Colin Blythe shared the role of England's main spinner with Wilfred Rhodes in the 1900s. They both played lots of tests with Barnes but not many together. Like others Blythe had a tremendous home record, averaging 12.2 compared to his away record of 24.5. And he took over 5 wickets a test, a feat made more impressive by the fact that Barnes took 7(though Blythe didn't play in Barnes 1912 onslaught of SA). Unlike his contemporary Rhodes Blythe didn't get to play any cricket after the war, dying on the front during it. This allowed him better raw numbers than Rhodes but during the period of the 1900s where they both playing primarily as spin bowlers they averaged about the same.
Featured on 10 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 4th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 7th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 7th of 43 (5.26)
Colin Blythe shared the role of England's main spinner with Wilfred Rhodes in the 1900s. They both played lots of tests with Barnes but not many together. Like others Blythe had a tremendous home record, averaging 12.2 compared to his away record of 24.5. And he took over 5 wickets a test, a feat made more impressive by the fact that Barnes took 7(though Blythe didn't play in Barnes 1912 onslaught of SA). Unlike his contemporary Rhodes Blythe didn't get to play any cricket after the war, dying on the front during it. This allowed him better raw numbers than Rhodes but during the period of the 1900s where they both playing primarily as spin bowlers they averaged about the same.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
that's very true. There's also hardly anything separating a lot of these bowlers ranked near the bottom but things are about to pick up
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
24th. Graeme Swann, 90 points
Featured on 15 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 9th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 9th of 13 (Right Arm Offbreak)
Test WPM ranking: 17th of 43 (4.25)
One of the most modern bowlers on this list, Swanny comes in at number 24 at 90 points, 31 points ahead of Blythe. This 31 point gap is easily the biggest of the exercise so far and I feel these large gaps separates these bowlers into tiers. Swann also appeared on 15 lists, far more than anyone under him. So yeah, we've entered new ground here.
Swann only had a 5 year test career but he made a huge impact during that time and was considered the best spinner in the world by many(with many also thinking that belonged to one Saeed Ajmal, who doesn't appear on this list). Swann squeezed 60 tests into this short 5 year period, which is in no way a brief career, a testament to just how much test cricket England plays.
Other than his abysmal record in Australia of 52(which included a mid tour retirement) he performed well nearly everywhere, his next highest average being 31 in South Africa(and 38 against them). Against several nations he averaged well under 30 and against Pakistan he struck at 17 from 7 tests. His overall away and home averages were quite similar as well. Swanny was a popular character around the world and it was sad to see him go, though he was 34 and no spring chicken. The commentators also used to go on about his his high chance of taking a wicket in the first over of a spell. I'm not sure of the numbers here but remember hearing it thrown around a lot.
Featured on 15 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 9th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 9th of 13 (Right Arm Offbreak)
Test WPM ranking: 17th of 43 (4.25)
One of the most modern bowlers on this list, Swanny comes in at number 24 at 90 points, 31 points ahead of Blythe. This 31 point gap is easily the biggest of the exercise so far and I feel these large gaps separates these bowlers into tiers. Swann also appeared on 15 lists, far more than anyone under him. So yeah, we've entered new ground here.
Swann only had a 5 year test career but he made a huge impact during that time and was considered the best spinner in the world by many(with many also thinking that belonged to one Saeed Ajmal, who doesn't appear on this list). Swann squeezed 60 tests into this short 5 year period, which is in no way a brief career, a testament to just how much test cricket England plays.
Other than his abysmal record in Australia of 52(which included a mid tour retirement) he performed well nearly everywhere, his next highest average being 31 in South Africa(and 38 against them). Against several nations he averaged well under 30 and against Pakistan he struck at 17 from 7 tests. His overall away and home averages were quite similar as well. Swanny was a popular character around the world and it was sad to see him go, though he was 34 and no spring chicken. The commentators also used to go on about his his high chance of taking a wicket in the first over of a spell. I'm not sure of the numbers here but remember hearing it thrown around a lot.
trundler
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Haha saw it. That sucks.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Any option to restore auto-saved content come up?
vcs
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RIP threadGood stuff. Harsh visits this thread pretty often do hopefully he can help me out