mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Thanks mate. Spin bowling produced a lot of characters so there's lots to say in the write ups
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CW decides the greatest test spinner ever. 43 names: Countdown/Rankings thread
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
a massive zebra
International Captain
Tom Graveney said Ramadhin threw the lot, not just his quicker ball. See this video at around 24:30:
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a massive zebra
International Captain
Lock's overall average is very misleading.
He took 47 wickets @ 7.80 against New Zealand who at that time were amongst the weakest Test sides ever seen. Against all the other sides, he took 127 wickets at 32.15. He averaged over 25 with a strike rate over 74 against every other side. Given the favourable era in which he played, when compared with contemporaries like Laker, Wardle and Appleyard, this is a relatively run of the mill bowling resume; despite what his overall average may suggest at first glance from a modern perspective.
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the big bambino
International Captain
Cricket consensus: “You can’t throw a leg break.”
Sonny Ramadhin: “Hold my beer.”
Sonny Ramadhin: “Hold my beer.”
OverratedSanity
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He was a filthy off spinner
the big bambino
International Captain
Ha. Always thought he was a leggie.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Equal 29th. Bobby Peel, 33 points
Featured on 4 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 6th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 10th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 8th of 43 (5.05)
One of several famous English left arm spinners, Bobby Peel played all his test cricket in the 19th century and is the oldest player to make the list. Playing on those ancient pitches not at all suited for batsmen allowed to him have one of the best test bowling averages of all time at a shade under 17. In home tests he averaged 9 and struck every 27 balls. Damn. Looked like a bit of a badass.
Featured on 4 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 6th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 10th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 8th of 43 (5.05)
One of several famous English left arm spinners, Bobby Peel played all his test cricket in the 19th century and is the oldest player to make the list. Playing on those ancient pitches not at all suited for batsmen allowed to him have one of the best test bowling averages of all time at a shade under 17. In home tests he averaged 9 and struck every 27 balls. Damn. Looked like a bit of a badass.
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mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Equal 29th. Daniel Vettori, 33 points
Featured on 7 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 6th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 10th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 42nd of 43 (3.20)
The only kiwi to make the list, Daniel Vettori has a great economy rate for the modern era at 2.59. He took 362 wickets, easily the record for a NZ spinner but really he wasn't very penetrative. Essentially finishing last here on the rankings for wickets per match(As Rhodes played a lot of tests as a batsman), Vettori had 3 years of test cricket where he averaged over 60 with the ball and had a strike rate of over 140(03, 07, 12). Even in spin friendly India he averaged 44(though had good records in Banladesh and Sri Lanka). His overall average of 34.3 is the worst out of anyone on this list and unlike Mailey who had a similar average I talked up big time due to his WPM. Vettori didn't even have much competition for wickets.
As his batting became more and more useful his bowling became less so and he became an expert at 'tying up an end'. But this is no small feat in the 21st century and credit has to go him for that economy rate. Points should also go to him for longevity and for a few years in his career he was a genuine wicket taker. Never a huge turner of the ball, Vettori relied on subtle variations in flight to claim his victims.
Featured on 7 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 6th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 10th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 42nd of 43 (3.20)
The only kiwi to make the list, Daniel Vettori has a great economy rate for the modern era at 2.59. He took 362 wickets, easily the record for a NZ spinner but really he wasn't very penetrative. Essentially finishing last here on the rankings for wickets per match(As Rhodes played a lot of tests as a batsman), Vettori had 3 years of test cricket where he averaged over 60 with the ball and had a strike rate of over 140(03, 07, 12). Even in spin friendly India he averaged 44(though had good records in Banladesh and Sri Lanka). His overall average of 34.3 is the worst out of anyone on this list and unlike Mailey who had a similar average I talked up big time due to his WPM. Vettori didn't even have much competition for wickets.
As his batting became more and more useful his bowling became less so and he became an expert at 'tying up an end'. But this is no small feat in the 21st century and credit has to go him for that economy rate. Points should also go to him for longevity and for a few years in his career he was a genuine wicket taker. Never a huge turner of the ball, Vettori relied on subtle variations in flight to claim his victims.
srbhkshk
International Captain
Are these figures real? Extremely hard to believe.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
28th. Nathan Lyon, 48 points
Featured on 7 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 9th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 10th of 13 (Right Arm Offbreak)
Test WPM ranking: 26th of 43 (3.20)
Noice Gary. The youngest player to make the list and a rags to riches tale. Lyon was a groundsman the year before he found himself as the next person plucked out of nowhere in an attempt to fill the hole in Australia's spin role post-Warne. And personally I considered him one of the least likely to succeed. But he's proven me and many others wrong, especially last year.
Cutting his teeth on our aussie pitches have forced him to use bounce and overspin as his main weapons but when he's gotten the chance to play in spin friendly conditions he's proven he is a world class bowler. He took 22 wickets in a 2 test away series against Bangas last year which has to be close to the record for a 2 test series.(I can't find the actual record) He's also been quite a force in recent 'big' series for his country, taking 19 wickets against India and 21 last Ashes.
However his career has been full of ups and downs and even though it finally looked to be turning around last year his 2018 has been quite poor so far. Still he's weaseled his way in the 300 club now and I can see him hitting 400 in no time.
Featured on 7 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 9th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 10th of 13 (Right Arm Offbreak)
Test WPM ranking: 26th of 43 (3.20)
Noice Gary. The youngest player to make the list and a rags to riches tale. Lyon was a groundsman the year before he found himself as the next person plucked out of nowhere in an attempt to fill the hole in Australia's spin role post-Warne. And personally I considered him one of the least likely to succeed. But he's proven me and many others wrong, especially last year.
Cutting his teeth on our aussie pitches have forced him to use bounce and overspin as his main weapons but when he's gotten the chance to play in spin friendly conditions he's proven he is a world class bowler. He took 22 wickets in a 2 test away series against Bangas last year which has to be close to the record for a 2 test series.(I can't find the actual record) He's also been quite a force in recent 'big' series for his country, taking 19 wickets against India and 21 last Ashes.
However his career has been full of ups and downs and even though it finally looked to be turning around last year his 2018 has been quite poor so far. Still he's weaseled his way in the 300 club now and I can see him hitting 400 in no time.
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mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
well a lot of his peers averaged the same lol. WG Grace's FC avgs are 40 w/bat and 18 w/ball. Is he the greatest AR ever? ha.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
7 was a typo, meant to be 17. The 9 stat is real though
a massive zebra
International Captain
He missed a 1 before the 7.
Dendarii
International Debutant
His overall average is 16.98, so I think that 7 was a type and meant to be 17, but he definitely did average 9 at home.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo
trundler
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Dammit one of these days I'll get one conspiracy theory right.
a massive zebra
International Captain
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
27th. Bert Ironmonger, 52 points
Featured on 8 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 7th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 9th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 6th of 43 (5.29)
This one's gonna be a long one because I really like Dainty.
Ironmonger was no athlete and considered one of the worst batsman and fielders of all time. He was a ridiculous 46 when he started his test career(seriously, how often did this happen in the 20s) and lost half his spinning finger in a childhood accident. He had an awkward lumbering gait which earned him his nickname and honestly looked like he belonged in the pub more than on the pitch. I can only imagine what his accent mus have sounded like. Yet his test bowling record is one of the greatest of all time accounting for any era.
I'll start by saying the test pitches he bowled in on the 20s and 30s were nothing like the pitches of the 1800s where the ball might wizz and fizz around on day 1 of match due to poor preparation. During Ironmonger's time there were a lot of docile featherbeds which allowed players such as Ponsford and Bradman to notch up 400+ scores in FC cricket. Ironmonger pushed the ball through at nearly Underwood pace but I stilled counted him as SLA for the sake of convenience.
Ironmonger's stats are pretty tremendous at first glance. 14 tests, 74 wickets(at over 5 per test), an insane E/R of 1.7 and an avergage just under 18. He nearly played the same amount of tests as say George Headley and I daresay a bowling average of 18 is equivalent or nearly so to a batting average of 60. Yet Headley is considered a legend an Ironmonger largely forgotten.
The reason of course is because against the very best side of his era, England, he averaged a modest 33. Against the Windies and South Africa he averaged 14 and 9, having one amazing series each against both of them. 22 wickets against the Windies(with Headley) in one and famously 31 against South Africa in the other, including one match where he took 11/24 and was simply unplayable. This was against a side consisting of Mitchell, Taylor and Cameron so you couldn't call them batting minnows, though that 11 fer did come on a soft wicket not suited to large scores. Still Ironmonger was the Bradman with the ball that match, taking a wicket for every 2 runs hit against him and doing it 11 times. South Africa were bundled out for under 50 twice. Gotta be one of the most dominant performances ever.
27 is a decent finish, I personally think he could have finished higher.
Featured on 8 of 35 lists
Highest finish: 7th (1 time)
Ranking within spin discipline: 9th of 14 (Slow Left Arm Orthodox)
Test WPM ranking: 6th of 43 (5.29)
This one's gonna be a long one because I really like Dainty.
Ironmonger was no athlete and considered one of the worst batsman and fielders of all time. He was a ridiculous 46 when he started his test career(seriously, how often did this happen in the 20s) and lost half his spinning finger in a childhood accident. He had an awkward lumbering gait which earned him his nickname and honestly looked like he belonged in the pub more than on the pitch. I can only imagine what his accent mus have sounded like. Yet his test bowling record is one of the greatest of all time accounting for any era.
I'll start by saying the test pitches he bowled in on the 20s and 30s were nothing like the pitches of the 1800s where the ball might wizz and fizz around on day 1 of match due to poor preparation. During Ironmonger's time there were a lot of docile featherbeds which allowed players such as Ponsford and Bradman to notch up 400+ scores in FC cricket. Ironmonger pushed the ball through at nearly Underwood pace but I stilled counted him as SLA for the sake of convenience.
Ironmonger's stats are pretty tremendous at first glance. 14 tests, 74 wickets(at over 5 per test), an insane E/R of 1.7 and an avergage just under 18. He nearly played the same amount of tests as say George Headley and I daresay a bowling average of 18 is equivalent or nearly so to a batting average of 60. Yet Headley is considered a legend an Ironmonger largely forgotten.
The reason of course is because against the very best side of his era, England, he averaged a modest 33. Against the Windies and South Africa he averaged 14 and 9, having one amazing series each against both of them. 22 wickets against the Windies(with Headley) in one and famously 31 against South Africa in the other, including one match where he took 11/24 and was simply unplayable. This was against a side consisting of Mitchell, Taylor and Cameron so you couldn't call them batting minnows, though that 11 fer did come on a soft wicket not suited to large scores. Still Ironmonger was the Bradman with the ball that match, taking a wicket for every 2 runs hit against him and doing it 11 times. South Africa were bundled out for under 50 twice. Gotta be one of the most dominant performances ever.
27 is a decent finish, I personally think he could have finished higher.
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