England players and selection discussion thread

[Jack1]

2016 was Jennings's freakishly good season. He was actually dropped in 2015 and went to South Africa to play club cricket; I think he got a bit of a kick up the arse and some strong words from his father. The result was 2016.

He got into England (century against India) and carried his form into the early part of 2017 but then his form completely collapsed at some point during the one-day campaign. I've never personally seen someone's form end so abruptly.

Yeah, but once again Jennings is a player with a highly questionable career average in FC cricket. It's why I'm quite sceptical about picking Vince again or looking at Malan again. England don't have many great options, that's why I mentioned Hildreth who has had a raw deal considering his career record. I think FC consistency season upon season is the best thing to look at for test selection and Burns is miles ahead of the pack on that basis in my view. Your criteria for selection is possibly different to mine though.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I know some support it here but the whole ''Buttler plonked onto the end of the batting order in an allrounder position'' thing makes absolutely no sense to me (unless you are playing as a keeper, which may in fact be the case now that Johnny is injured) - I cannot get my head around it. ''There you are Jos: see how many runs you can score alongside the Burnley Lara''.

If you insist on playing him, you surely have to play Buttler at 4 or 5?

 

[theegyptian]

Should get phil salt in for a laugh. Teeing off is his approach to opening the batting. Some real epic slogging.

 

[Jack1]

I know some support it here but the whole ''Buttler plonked onto the end of the batting order in an allrounder position'' thing makes absolutely no sense to me (unless you are playing as a keeper, which may in fact be the case now that Johnny is injured) - I cannot get my head around it. ''There you are Jos: see how many runs you can score alongside the Burnley Lara''.

If you insist on playing him, you surely have to play Buttler at 4 or 5?

He can't be lower than 5 if he's a specialist bat in my view or ruins the balance of the team. Buttler is basically being treated like a 11 year old bat in club cricket or something. It's like he's being defended from the bully boys with the new cherry. He's allowed to come in when the new cherry has lost it's shine, softened up and the bowlers are starting to tire. It's all bewildering to me when Buttler can't catch a cold without the gloves.

 

[Jarquis]

People who complain about Buttler being at 7 are my biggest frustration right now.

 

[Jack1]

People who complain about Buttler being at 7 are my biggest frustration right now.

Why? Buttler with the gloves at 7 is fine, not as a specialist bat. This isn't a test cricket position. It's a position made to accommodate Buttler. How many specialist number 7 bats can you think of? If he plays he bats 5 or he takes the gloves and bats 7.

Buttler should have been at 5 and Bairstow at 7 with gloves. Bairstow has been overworked and got injured.

 

[Jarquis]

Why? Buttler with the gloves at 7 is fine, not as a specialist bat. This isn't a test cricket position. It's a position made to accommodate Buttler. How many specialist number 7 bats can you think of? If he plays he bats 5 or he takes the gloves and bats 7.

Buttler should have been at 5 and Bairstow at 7 with gloves. Bairstow has been overworked and got injured.

It's not a position that has been made, it's a position that just wasn't filled. This whole idea of batting worse batsmen up the order because they're 'batsmen' is dumb.

That's more club cricket than anything else I've heard of. SA didn't make Kallis bat 6 because he bowled. Zimbabwe didn't make Flower bat 7.

Bairstow didn't get injured because he was overworked; it was a freak accident. You'd have a point if it was some fatigue related injury.

 

[Jarquis]

Honestly, our 5-6-7 consists of a specialist batsman, a WK and an allrounder - which is about as commonplace as you could hope for. They bat in order of who the team management think is most likely to score runs - which is about as common sense as you could hope for.

De Villiers kept in numerous games for SA and they picked blokes like Bavuma, Duminy, Van Zyl, Du Plessis, Dean Elgar

Sangakkarra batted 3 with the gloves with Dilshan and Jayasuriya down the order and Chamara Silva and Kapugedera playing as specialist bats.

 

[Jack1]

It's not a position that has been made, it's a position that just wasn't filled. This whole idea of batting worse batsmen up the order because they're 'batsmen' is dumb.

That's more club cricket than anything else I've heard of. SA didn't make Kallis bat 6 because he bowled. Zimbabwe didn't make Flower bat 7.

Bairstow didn't get injured because he was overworked; it was a freak accident. You'd have a point if it was some fatigue related injury.

Actually you have a specialist batsman batting below two all-rounders. The point of batting the keeper lower is to give him more rest short term and long term. Same for a player that bowls. It's nothing about anything else and not dumb. They aren't robots.

 

[Jarquis]

Actually you have a specialist batsman batting below two all-rounders. The point of batting the keeper lower is to give him more rest short term and long term. Same for a player that bowls. It's nothing about anything else and not dumb. They aren't robots.

Which is an entirely different argument to 'Buttler can't be a specialist batsman at number 7 because I've decided it's a role I don't like and it shouldn't exist'.

Every team is different and this current England team is particularly unusual. If we were looking at three players of similar standard with the bat then it absolutely makes sense to take other factors into account but when there's such disparity between them (or perceived disparity at least) then it makes absolutely no sense.

It's not as simple as just giving Buttler the gloves or just switching their positions. As you said, they're not robots and those sorts of actions will have consequences and impacts upon the individuals inolved.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Nine months ago we had a series where we saw the issue with batting Bairstow too low - he started the series as the form batsman of the England side and he was stuck batting with the tail too many times, having to hit out before they were bowled out.

 

[Starfighter]

Well, he started 7 then, is at 5 now, and one can't help but conclude that he's best at 6. The circle of English cricket.

It would help if Stokes could find the scores to match his talent more often.

 

[King Pietersen]

**** it, bring back Ian Bell. I miss those cover drives. If someone's going to get 20 and get out at least make it a ***y AF 20.

 

[S.Kennedy]

He is an attacking stroke-maker. You want your batsmen at 6 or under so that they don't run out of partners. He is more a specialist batsman than Stokes and Bairstow (if keeping) so it seems logical to push him in front. There is an argument that he is in better nick than those two also.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I know Bairstow likes to keep but they just need to be tough and say "no bro, just be a batsman, Buttler is keeper now"

 

[Groundking]

I know Bairstow likes to keep but they just need to be tough and say "no bro, just be a batsman, Buttler is keeper now"

I agree with this, if what somebody said in the match thread the other day is true but Stokes and Root not wanting to field Gully and 2nd Slip respectively then there's some suggestion that this team needs some serious tough love.

 

[Borges]

I know Bairstow likes to keep but they just need to be tough and say "no bro, just be a batsman, Buttler is keeper now"

With Bairstow out of action, the question is now moot. When both are in the playing eleven, why shouldn't the clearly better keeper be behind the stumps?

 

[Gremlin]

Similarly for batting order positions...

Going to be some very interesting selection decisions coming up in the coming week. Moeen and Vince in contention for a return? Openers? Keeper? All rounder positions? Sam Curran?

England's current issue (not withstanding all the ludicrous ECB decisions which undermines country cricket, but that's another thread...) is there is a lot of talent available, it's just honing that talent into an effective team.

 

[wpdavid]

Similarly for batting order positions...

Going to be some very interesting selection decisions coming up in the coming week. Moeen and Vince in contention for a return? Openers? Keeper? All rounder positions? Sam Curran?

England's current issue (not withstanding all the ludicrous ECB decisions which undermines country cricket, but that's another thread...) is there is a lot of talent available, it's just honing that talent into an effective team.

There really isn't a lot of talent available. Not for test match cricket, anyway. Have a look at all the players who have debuted since 2011 and how few of them have performed successfully and there's no avoiding the conclusion that our domestic system simply isn't fit for purpose, if the purpose is producing test match players. The proposed 100 ball tourney on top of the existing structure suggests that the guys in charge know this but just don't give a damn.

 

[Gnske]

**** it, bring back Ian Bell. I miss those cover drives. If someone's going to get 20 and get out at least make it a ***y AF 20.

It'd be slightly less depressing than Trott's return I feel, only slightly.