South Africa team selection

[SeamUp]

We saw when we had two quality strike bowlers at either end what a difference it makes like in the first 3 ODIs.

That then allows the other seamers and spinners too come into the game.

So whilst I think the results may have been different especially 4th ODI it was just disappointing to see the batting not get us over the line.

With so many uncertainties it would be ideal to see what happens in domestic one day comp but the Proteas have ODIs against Zim + Aus & then a full series against Pak/SRL so they won't be around for much domestic cricket.

Are we having a big T20 tournament or not ? Pressure situations for some players will be good too watch.

 

[StephenZA]

I would definitely consider Maharaj as an all round option but his batting too has gone off the boil of late !

Here we are talking about a 50-over series win so badly but the test series hurt me more.

In re-building our test side we have a lot of planning and work to do.

1) Elgar needs to find dominant form again.
2) Markram needs to nail down he is as good as we think he is.
3) Amla and Faf don't have long. How close is retirement ?
4) QdK needs to find his dominant form again. No question he scores important runs fast but the average is dropping below his ability.
5) De Bruyn & Bavuma need to match SA crickets high standards in test cricket. Like Mickey Arthur got Amla, Ab through to World class ability we need our current coaching staff to do the same. No excuses we have the talent.

I don't want things to drift along. We got to see performance of the high standard we expect.

I'm fine with the bowling for now.

For me it pretty much comes down to the WC, until then the stalwarts will stay (maybe beyond for Philander and Steyn). Then we will end up blooding a whole new generation and go into a 2/3 year period of growth. Having Rabada will hopefully help us win games through this period. QDK needs to seriously become reliable in the Test arena.

And from a socio-political (as not nice but reality as it is) we desperately need a high quality batsmen that is black. I don't dislike Bavuma but he will never be reliable.

 

[Dendarii]

3) Amla and Faf don't have long. How close is retirement ?

And adding to this - who are the likely replacements? Given that the World Cup forms a natural retirement point, it's good to have some sort of succession plan in place. We've already spoken about Hamza as the natural replacement for Amla, but what about Faf? Klaasen was in the test squad, but is he good enough to play purely as a batsman? Is Mulder a viable allround option? If neither of those then who?

And of course the big one - who will take over the captaincy?

 

[SeamUp]

For me it pretty much comes down to the WC, until then the stalwarts will stay (maybe beyond for Philander and Steyn). Then we will end up blooding a whole new generation and go into a 2/3 year period of growth. Having Rabada will hopefully help us win games through this period. QDK needs to seriously become reliable in the Test arena.

And from a socio-political (as not nice but reality as it is) we desperately need a high quality batsmen that is black. I don't dislike Bavuma but he will never be reliable.

If I had to go next group of batsmen in 2 lots.

They have played franchise cricket & got the best performances right now.

Erwee (29)
Second (29)
Hamza (23)
Mulder (20)
Muthusamy (24)
Klaasen (27)

Not enough games at the highest level but on 100 making ability these young men are the best & 2 count as black African - De Zorzi & Makwetu.

De Zorzi (21)
Rickelton (22)
Breetzke (20)
Van Tonder (20)
Bedingham (24)
Makwetu (19)

We can want black African batsmen but only through performance will we ever be satisfied. I can put the guys names out above but they all got to prove they can be world class. To be the best we need 5/6 averaging above 40 and at least 2 of those in 50 area.

 

[Bolo]

That's always true.... and you are better at trying to take the wickets of an inform batsman than contain them. You will have a bad day with the ball and the you need the batsmen to step up, and the reverse.

Going the containment route will lead to chasing pretty big scores fairly frequently. With a strong batting lineup you can still chase these. Strike bowlers will occasionally lead you to chasing a monster that you probably lose regardless of your lineup

 

[SeamUp]

And adding to this - who are the likely replacements? Given that the World Cup forms a natural retirement point, it's good to have some sort of succession plan in place. We've already spoken about Hamza as the natural replacement for Amla, but what about Faf? Klaasen was in the test squad, but is he good enough to play purely as a batsman? Is Mulder a viable allround option? If neither of those then who?

And of course the big one - who will take over the captaincy?

Sort of answered what we should be looking at below.

I think a lot of it will be generational. We got to be looking for world class so Hamza & Mulder are the two potential one's closest that have time on their side.

But in that next group I think we have a few stars.

Am I right in saying Faf & Amla could retire from tests after this home summer ? We then only.play after the WC and there are some massive assignments - India away and England home. We have a bit of correcting a few wrongs to do there. Its so unfortunate it comes so quick after a cycle.

The captaincy is an interesting one.

Elgar, Markram, de Bruyn, Bavuma, QdK , Maharaj have all been captains domestically.or junior level.

In the younger ones the same can be said of Hamza, Mulder, De Zorzi, van Tonder, Makwetu.

 

[SeamUp]

First ever FTP that includes The Test Championship has been released

Who plays whom? Where? All you need to know about your team's schedule from 2018 to 2023 - ESPNcricinfo

Just looking how dry our test schedule looks. Not sure why Sri Lanka come here twice for tests in 3 years and India come here again before we go to England and Australia again.

Would I be right in saying from the above - 4 test series v England & 3 for India/Australia and 2 against the rest ? - Although we are playing 3 against Pakistan this summer.

So I think it is safe to say even if Vern/Dale carry on after the WC they will never play a test in England/Australia again. So in 2022/23 we could have not many players who would have played a test Lord's and definitely none of the players would have played a test at SCG or MCG.

 

[SeamUp]

Number of test matches played by our current squad

Elgar 51
Markram 12
De Bruyn 6
Amla 119
Du Plessis 54
Bavuma 31
De Kock 35
Philander 55
Maharaj 22
Rabada 32
Steyn 88
Ngidi 4
Olivier 5



Dale said he definitely wanted a 100 tests and conveniently that ends with home to England ( 3 (Pak) + 2 (SRL) + 3 (IND) + 4 (ENG) = 12)

Will a South African ever get to a 100 again ?

 

[SeamUp]

10 out of 15 for WC settled according to Otis

https://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket...t-guys-to-look-to-score-against-spin-16591885

 

[StephenZA]

10 out of 15 for WC settled according to Otis

https://www.iol.co.za/sport/cricket...t-guys-to-look-to-score-against-spin-16591885

I read that... pretty interesting he does not say which ten; and we where pretty sure of at least about 8. I do think that Steyn will make it back into the squad before the WC, unless something disastrous happens.

 

[Bahseph]

If the plan is going to be to blast out teams for as little as possible then yeah I'd play Ngidi, Steyn and Rabada with probably Shamsi/Tahir. Then Phehlukwayo has to play because he has been groomed for the death. I just have this sneaky suspicion that it Morris is fit he is in at 7. Gibson seems to like the look of him.

 

[StephenZA]

If the plan is going to be to blast out teams for as little as possible then yeah I'd play Ngidi, Steyn and Rabada with probably Shamsi/Tahir. Then Phehlukwayo has to play because he has been groomed for the death. I just have this sneaky suspicion that it Morris is fit he is in at 7. Gibson seems to like the look of him.

If we had great and consistent no 6/7/8 lower order hitters then we could go for a containing team.... but we have not had a single player do that consistently for years now. Basically if our top 5 don't make 90% of the runs we are in trouble. So I think going with a longer tail but better bowlers, may be best. Give Steyn 7/8 overs up front. Andile and Rabada to bowl death overs. Ngidi 3rd seamer and Shamsi/Tahir. Duminy to chip in when he is needed. 4 wicket taking bowlers. Our chances of winning this WC is slim to none on current performance and team balance, need to take some risks. QDK on a 100 making hot streak, Duminy performing well in knockout games... and other miracles would be nice.

 

[SeamUp]

I'm still on the fence with quite a bit. Otis says there is still domestic and I think quite a few could use that as a catalyst still like the middle order batsmen and all rounders.

The fact he names Steyn, Morris, Tahir to me - its probably down to 18 players.

Sport24 interview with Steyn

https://m.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/dale-steyn-chats-to-sport24-20180817

 

[Dendarii]

Sport24 interview with Steyn

https://m.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/dale-steyn-chats-to-sport24-20180817

From that interview:

"A number of cricketers who have played before me - Jacques Kallis, Mark Boucher and Graeme Smith are legends of the game, but weren’t fortunate enough to win an ICC-sanctioned event during their playing careers."

Dale doesn't know his cricket history: Final (D/N), Wills International Cup at Dhaka, Nov 1 1998 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

 

[Bahseph]

Definitely won't see me giving Steyn the ball at the back end. I don't think there would be a need anyway because Rabada and Ngidi could do it. We definitely have to be crafty if we want to do well in this WC. I'd rather Dale bowl upfront and take 7-0-45-3 than save him for the back end and he goes at 10s.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

From that interview:

"A number of cricketers who have played before me - Jacques Kallis, Mark Boucher and Graeme Smith are legends of the game, but weren’t fortunate enough to win an ICC-sanctioned event during their playing careers."

Dale doesn't know his cricket history: Final (D/N), Wills International Cup at Dhaka, Nov 1 1998 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Philo Wallace having the day of his life there

 

[Bolo]

That RSA lineup is dismal. That's got to be one of the weakest paper lineups we've ever fielded. That one being the one to win a tournament is a big surprise.

 

[StephenZA]

From that interview:

"A number of cricketers who have played before me - Jacques Kallis, Mark Boucher and Graeme Smith are legends of the game, but weren’t fortunate enough to win an ICC-sanctioned event during their playing careers."

Dale doesn't know his cricket history: Final (D/N), Wills International Cup at Dhaka, Nov 1 1998 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

That tournament does not count.... that fact that it was a pure knockout tournament that SA won means immediately that it has no relevance to 'real' international cricket....

 

[Dendarii]

That RSA lineup is dismal. That's got to be one of the weakest paper lineups we've ever fielded. That one being the one to win a tournament is a big surprise.

Although you might be on to something there. Maybe the reason we haven't won any other tournaments is that we've been going about it all wrong by trying to pick good sides.

I didn't actually look at the scorecard when I posted the link, but what was the story behind choosing that team? I know it was Bangladesh, but three spinners alongside Elworthy and Kallis? The West Indies should feel embarrassed to be bowled out by that attack.

 

[Bolo]

Klusenar, Donald and Pollock were all in that era. Not sure why none of them were playing. Seems unlikely they would all be injured, but even more unlikely that they would all not be selected. They are all probably better than any bowler there, and even Pollock would practically make that team as a specialist bat. Can't remember the tournament, not sure.