Maximas
Cricketer Of The Year
Didn't he actually start his career as a specialist bowler? I seem to recall some early ODIs where he batted 9
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Pandya vs CdG vs Holder vs Stokes vs Holder vs Chris Morris vs Marsh and whoever else
- Thread starter Mr Miyagi
- Start date
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Really not uncommon. But his batting got cricket fans attention early on more so than his bowling.
The guy can bat. It really isn't in dispute. His bowling after one home summer of wickets still is.
But he can bat well. Most of us believe this.
With the pathetic WI top order besides Braithwaite, Holder is a good bet to be WI top innings scorer every time they play.
Maybe not T20 with Russ, Lewis et al, but even ODI. And this includes Gayle.
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
Yeah, Rhodes and Sobers are well retired to the players that matter in this thread.
I am not discussing Kallis or Sobers. Not even Afridi.
This is CURRENT players only.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
So when people say that his batting has always been good but he needed to work on his bowling, they seriously believed that if had some sort of injury that prevented him from bowling, that'd be better than if he wasn't allowed to bat?
Because this astounds me. If the point was that he was being selected primarily as a bowler, and that his batting was good enough to bat 7 as a bowling allrounder but he needed to produce more in his primary role to be a particularly good player then cool, I agree. But if the idea was that his primary role was actually batting and he needed to bowl better to justify his spot as a batting allrounder, that seems batshit insane to me. It's never been even remotely true IMO.
trundler
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That was only in response to him batting 9. Saying that it isn't an anomaly.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Dude, if Powell, Hetmeyer and Hopes' can get a gig at batting specialist for WI then Holder is in the batting selection realm. Seriously.
He may not make the XI, but he is in the equation. That is how dire WI batting has been post Gayle, Chanders and Lara.
And before you debate batshit insane, he has always been fit to bowl., so it is an irrelevant and redundant issue really.
But even then. Look at their top order. It is pathetic, besides Bratihwaite.
He still has more test hundreds than Hetmeyer has FC hundreds. And Holder sets the bar low at 2. TWO!
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Mr Miyagi
Banned
Most of us (incl you iirc aren't surprised at his batting success) still question his bowling against seam and swing competent teams, and his ability to generate such aforementioned away from home.
Borges
International Regular
As a third seamer behind Roach-Gabriel, he is good enough.
And what is all this home-away crap? He would do better on pitches - home or away - that have something in it for him.
On pitches that do not offer much assistance - home or away - he would be a reasonable stock bowler.
And what is all this home-away crap? He would do better on pitches - home or away - that have something in it for him.
On pitches that do not offer much assistance - home or away - he would be a reasonable stock bowler.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Because he sucked in NZ and Eng when the pitches were doing something is why I have doubts.
I watched the NZ top order fold to Gabriel and the tail wag.
I watched him in England get negligible movement.
So I am not sold on his 120 km/h whatevers just yet.
I know from 2014 in NZ he can hit 140 and do things.
But whether did he do that vs SL and Bang, or was the Caribbean environment just liking the duke ball from Holder against an Asian team the more definitive conclusion I have not reached (incl or not incl the pink ball test where he destroyed the opposition)?
Even Jesse Ryder caused trouble with the Dukes in England?!
I'm not sold on his bowling just yet. I have been a long time sold on his batting, tbf.
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kingkallis
International Coach
Right now, Ben Stokes.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Well Stokes is inconsistent, and CdG hasn't toured in tests. Holder has failed with the ball away and BCCI bowlers don't like tough tours statistically.
Morris failed in England, Nabi has only played one test, and Khan (I have hope for) is a noob. So make a prediction if you're brave enough
Zinzan
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He's probably still no.2 out of that lot, but he's hardly been hitting it out of the park since his return has he? CDG was better than him in both the NZ/England Test series & The IPL.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
IPL is a stretch, but tests, I'm on board ZInzan.
Mr Miyagi
Banned
Love him in ODI. Tests, less so.
Kevin O'Brien.
Funny how it goes in cycles. Seem to remember when Kallis retired there seemed to be no seam all-rounders bar Shane Watson and folk thought that with the amount of cricket being played (and possibly the flat tracks prevalent) that they might be a dying breed. Now most teams seem to have one (or two in England's case, I include Woakes).
Funny how it goes in cycles. Seem to remember when Kallis retired there seemed to be no seam all-rounders bar Shane Watson and folk thought that with the amount of cricket being played (and possibly the flat tracks prevalent) that they might be a dying breed. Now most teams seem to have one (or two in England's case, I include Woakes).