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Pandya vs CdG vs Holder vs Stokes vs Holder vs Chris Morris vs Marsh and whoever else

Zinzan

Zinzan

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Mr Miyagi said:
IPL is a stretch, but tests, I'm on board ZInzan.
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I think you misunderstand. I'm not claiming CDG is categorically better than Stokes in either Tests or T20s. I'm simply factually stating CDG had a better test series in NZ early this year, & a better IPL in 2018.

Their IPL numbers were, Stokes averaging 16 with the bat with a SR of 121 & a bowling ER of 8.18, while CDG averaged 26 with the bat with a SR of 155, & a bowling ER of 8.60.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Zinzan said:
I think you misunderstand. I'm not claiming CDG is categorically better than Stokes in either Tests or T20s. I'm simply factually stating CDG had a better test series in NZ early this year, & a better IPL in 2018.

Their IPL numbers were, Stokes averaging 16 with the bat with a SR of 121 & a bowling ER of 8.18, while CDG averaged 26 with the bat with a SR of 155, & a bowling ER of 8.60.
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This year, not their IPL careers (of 2 years each).

And it is still debated given CdG's horrendous even compared with the death bowler E/R of Ben Stokes THIS YEAR.

https://www.iplt20.com/teams/rajasthan-royals/squad/1154/ben-stokes

https://www.iplt20.com/teams/kolkata-knight-riders/squad/820/colin-de-grandhomme

If you want CdG over Stokes in t20,l I'm not with you. This year or last. At all, really. But in tests, I'm on board :)

CdG needs to inflate his ODI and t20 stats with more wins and start hitting wrist spinners more often. Not just in losses (bar that one innings for NZL vs Pakistan in ODI where S Khan had only 1 over left).

I'm a Kiwi - I support CdG, but his IPL career is not a highlight.
 
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Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
im with pews on this. i've always considered holder's batting an excellent #8 with promise to moving higher. Nosebleeds at #6 tho imo. his bowling has always needed some improvement. great tools but was often innocuous until recently.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Flem274* said:
im with pews on this. i've always considered holder's batting an excellent #8 with promise to moving higher. Nosebleeds at #6 tho imo. his bowling has always needed some improvement. great tools but was often innocuous until recently.
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Possibly why he has never batted higher than 7. Lol.
 
B

Bolo

State Captain
Ordered by dominance of skillset, batting to bowling

Stokes Shakib Ashwin Philander.

Stokes is clearly below the others, but he's the only one the 100% meets thread criteria, so I've included him.
 
Xuhaib

Xuhaib

International Coach
You missed Faheem Ashraf in the title though I am not sold on him yet especially with the bat
 
Red

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
If Pat Cummins gets himself fully fit I could see no reason why he couldnt turn himself into a #7 bat
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Mr Miyagi said:
This year, not their IPL careers (of 2 years each).

And it is still debated given CdG's horrendous even compared with the death bowler E/R of Ben Stokes THIS YEAR.

https://www.iplt20.com/teams/rajasthan-royals/squad/1154/ben-stokes

https://www.iplt20.com/teams/kolkata-knight-riders/squad/820/colin-de-grandhomme

If you want CdG over Stokes in t20,l I'm not with you. This year or last. At all, really. But in tests, I'm on board :)

CdG needs to inflate his ODI and t20 stats with more wins and start hitting wrist spinners more often. Not just in losses (bar that one innings for NZL vs Pakistan in ODI where S Khan had only 1 over left).

I'm a Kiwi - I support CdG, but his IPL career is not a highlight.
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Lol Mate, It's like you didn't read my post you replied to at all. I'd just re-iterated that I didn't claim CDG was better in either Tests or T20s, only that he had a better Eng/NZ Test series earlier in the year, & a better IPL 2018.

So this was a very strawman-like reply. :huh:
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Zinzan said:
Lol Mate, It's like you didn't read my post you replied to at all. I'd just re-iterated that I didn't claim CDG was better in either Tests or T20s, only that he had a better Eng/NZ Test series earlier in the year, & a better IPL 2018.

So this was a very strawman-like reply. :huh:
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Chill Zinzan, I've read some of your posts and you seem like a very good poster to me.

I'm not strawmanning you at all.

I just think CdG has a lot of improvement to make in pyjamas (with the ball has to be his priority) and he has imo certainly padded his stats in losses (especially with the bat).

His batting only seems to have one major flaw, that is wrist spin, And I am sure he working his butt off to resolve this.

I want CdG to be a success. And while he puts up good odi and T20 IPL batting numbers, they're constantly in losses far too much for my liking, most of them not even close losses.

I think his stats are flattering in pyjamas. Both to his bowling (which has pulled from his full complement many times over) and his batting - where he cashes in in games which the team lose.

It is pretty easy to score 9 runs over and be not out when the asking rate is 15 or 20 and the game is nearly over.

But this thread asked you to nominate the second best, not merely say who had the better IPL with the bat (and Stokes was still the better bowler this IPL anyway).

CdG's test batting vs England was very very impressive. Showed he has more to his game than a filthy slogger.
 
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T

tooextracool

International Coach
Mr Miyagi said:
I'm not sure I'd take Stokes over CdG in tests. In ODI or t20, absolutely I would take Stokes at this stage. But in tests, I'm not so sure.
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This makes no sense to me. I've never really been able to wrap my head around the fallacy of Ben Stokes as a competent LOI player - he has had literally 0 worthwhile international t20 performances with bat or ball and his only claim to fame that can be found anywhere involves searching for Braithwaite on Google. This is the same perverse logic that the selectors apply to select him and keep players like Alex Hales and Dawid Malan out of our ODI side. An utterly inept bowler who hasn't bothered to develop any variations and a batsman that simply struggles to score against anyone willing to take the pace off the ball.

On the flipside, as I have mentioned before, Stokes as a test batsman is significantly underrated. Not only has he been averaging close to 40 over the past couple of years, he has more test tons (6) than Bairstow, Shakib, Flintoff and you name it all of whom have played more tests. With the possible exception of Holder, I don't see any of the above names getting close to 6 tons during their test career, let alone matching him. He is also a handy test match bowler.
 
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TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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Yeah I think Miyagi's got that one backwards

Tests: Stokes >>>>> CdG
LO: Stokes >> CdG

Stokes' superiority is much more pronounced in Tests IMO
 
cnerd123

cnerd123

likes this
Stokes is like one of those pre-money ball era of top ranking limited overs prospects - he bowls fast, he hits it big, he's an amazing fielder, he's aggressive. Watch him train and he seems the ideal limited overs cricketer, but take a closer look at the stats and it reveals a different tale

I think he's better off focusing on Tests anyways. He's a rare talent, and as a fan I don't want to see white ball cricket affect his red ball skills
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
tooextracool said:
This makes no sense to me. I've never really been able to wrap my head around the fallacy of Ben Stokes as a competent LOI player - he has had literally 0 worthwhile international t20 performances with bat or ball and his only claim to fame that can be found anywhere involves searching for Braithwaite on Google. This is the same perverse logic that the selectors apply to select him and keep players like Alex Hales and Dawid Malan out of our ODI side. An utterly inept bowler who hasn't bothered to develop any variations and a batsman that simply struggles to score against anyone willing to take the pace off the ball.

On the flipside, as I have mentioned before, Stokes as a test batsman is significantly underrated. Not only has he been averaging close to 40 over the past couple of years, he has more test tons (6) than Bairstow, Shakib, Flintoff and you name it all of whom have played more tests. With the possible exception of Holder, I don't see any of the above names getting close to 6 tons during their test career, let alone matching him. He is also a handy test match bowler.
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You havn't watched CdG bowl in limited overs much have you?

We all know Stokes was smashed by Bathwaite. CdG on past form would have been worse (if at all possible).
 
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