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Shakib Al Hasan vs Ian Botham / Burgey vs *****

Who the better all rounder

  • Shakib Al Hasan

    Votes: 21 42.9%

  • Ian Botham

    Votes: 28 57.1%
  • Total voters
    49
Burgey

Burgey

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Well to an extent I suppose they broke down the veneer of it being a gentlemen’s sport, but I suspect the reality was it had stopped being so many decades earlier.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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jimmy101 said:
For sure. I only went with Flower cause I doubt all that many people outside of CW would have heard of Houghton, and was trying to go for players which were the first "superstar" produced by their respective country.

I rate Houghton really highly btw. Averaged 40+ at Test level when he was getting on a bit & was the backbone of the Zimbabwean batting lineup
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No way is Dave Houghton a great though. He was their first decent player. Not a great.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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Burgey I thought your diary was packed this week? The new job hasn't seemed to slow your posting rate down at all.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Daemon said:
Streak Houghton and Flower all kinda debuted at the same time anyways
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But Houghton had been Zimbabwe for a long time before he debut'd.

Look at the 1987/88 WC match v New Zealand. (He kept wickets too just for good measure).Freak of a player

Houghton made his first FC century in the very same match as Graham Hick did his, despite being 29 to Hick's 19 (this is in 1985!!!!!! - 7 years before Zimbo get test status!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

For those of us who were around at the time, Houghton's talent and class was commonly known in the cricket world. Before Zimbabwe even had test status. All he did, was reaffirm it, despite being well past his prime in years of age.
 It would be like calling Clive Rice ordinary based on his intl career. But Houghton despite being old, still put up numbers.

This is well before anyone paid attention to Flower or Streak, Houghton was the one guy in the Zimbabwean team opposition paid respect and attention too.

He was reverse sweeping before people even knew what it was before Gatting made it infamous.

"Decent", doesn't do him justice. He was gifted. He was already known in an era where Martin Crowe and Vengasarkar (many on CW outside India wouldn't even know of him) had usurped a declining Viv. And Houghton stayed loyal to Zimbo instead of going to Eng (or even SA).

I think he is a legend of the game. A true super-star, and a player I admire and respect. And that was well before Streak, Flower A, or even Brandes did anything of note. And yes, he kept wicket despite being a premier bat until being injured with a rsi problem.

 
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Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
David Houghton Biography (27 February) | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

December 1997 brought the end of an era for cricket in Zimbabwe, as Dave Houghton, at the age of 40 the oldest and one of the most remarkable players in international cricket, announced his retirement. He may well go down on record as the biggest single contributor to cricket in the country. He has made an immense contribution to the game, scoring at the time of his retirement not far short of twice as many runs for the country as the next best, and will continue to do so as coach.

With only two first-class centuries before the age of 30 and denied Test cricket until the age of 35, he had at the time of his retirement the thirteenth-highest average of any current Test batsman. He could still master any bowling attack in the world, particularly the spinners, and it seemed ridiculous that he retire when he was batting as well as at any time in his career. He remained totally loyal to Zimbabwe throughout his career, and has never been tempted away by fine offers to play elsewhere, as were several other leading Zimbabweans before Test status was granted.

Dave gave three main reasons for his retirement. The immediate reason was that he had been battling with nagging back and knee injuries, mostly niggles which troubled him the next morning after a long day in the field. This was particularly unfortunate, because his expertise against the home team's spin bowlers in conditions that favoured them would have been absolutely invaluable. Secondly, he had been so busy with his job as the national team coach that he had had insufficient time to concentrate on his own game. Finally, he now felt, especially with the return of Murray Goodwin, that Zimbabwe had enough young batsmen of high calibre and that he should not stand in the way of their progress...

He was also a wicket-keeper at that stage; he 'just happened' to be a keeper at all the sports he played, keeping goal in soccer and hockey -- in fact, he was the national side's hockey goalkeeper for several years. Kallimullah, the Pakistan hockey captain at that time has gone on record as saying that he regarded Dave as the greatest goalkeeper he had ever played against. As a boy he enjoyed being involved in the action all the time, and he continued to play behind the stumps until his early thirties when, as he puts it, he `saw the light'; he had long since ceased to enjoy the job. A painful hand condition, caused by the constant battering of the ball, was also a major factor...

After independence, he usually continued in his dual role, although occasionally played as a batsman only, while Robin Brown kept wicket. However, it was generally agreed that Dave was the better of the two, and many judges still rate Dave as Zimbabwe's best keeper since independence. His ability as a hockey goalkeeper stood him in good stead; he had very quick reflexes, was very agile standing back, and also achieved some brilliant dismissals when standing up to the stumps.
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Superstar. How did Gilchrist bat in tests after 33 let alone 35? ;)
 
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Burgey

Burgey

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*****, try to live stream Masterchef in about ten minutes as the contestants have to make Peter Gilmore’s Snow Egg. Real people making a real dessert.
 
Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
***** said:
Nice to see you go full Nazi with the 'Asians aren't real people' rhetoric
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Tbf to the Nazi's they did have an axis with Japan, which is clearly full of Asian people.

Modern Australia is clearly not Nazi Germany, tbf, though.
 
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Mr Miyagi

Mr Miyagi

Banned
trundler said:
Another normal human conversation successfully Miyagi'd.
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You're too eager. I get it, you're 16 and full of enthusiasm and you're missing the context that ***** has already laid out. You think ***** and Burgey are the rich kids and you want to be part of their clique. Except one is a self proclaimed wealthy white Australian (Western Sydney mind you), and one lives in Hong Kong with his wealthy migrant parents.

It is a bit before you time; but here you go:

there was thing called World War two, where Nazi Germany, Facist Italy (under Mussolini) and Japan killed many of grandfathers and fathers in the cricket world. All over the cricket world. From NZ, Aus, Eng, Afg, WI, British Raj, and further. This may help remind you:

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005177

Please don't offend the memories of the lost.

Trundler, you're totally too keen to take me on, you're fairly smart, especially for your age, but you lack experience and the maturity or wisdom that it brings for many.
 
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