Wastemen etc

[TheJediBrah]

Real men make runs without moving their feet. That's cheating.

 

[Prince EWS]

Not a bad side, but it really is telling how t20 is skewed to the top order, given you have tried to squeeze 6 typically opening/top 3 bats into the team (incl KP) - when the players who have actually played and scored many runs in the middle order are more limited in availability and also fetch huge IPL salaries, Russell, Pollard, DJ Bravo less so. For these guys, their averages mislead to their true and fantastic value (which really has been more measured in their huge IPL earnings).

I look it more the other way, in that the best T20 batsmen end up batting top three in their sides even if they don't do it other formats, just to make sure they're not wasted in the short innings. They end up with better stats partly because they open, but they open because they're better in the first place. The other blokes you mentioned earn lots in IPL through a mix of being over-rated and being seam-up allrounders.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Real men make runs without moving their feet. That's cheating.

Heh, well Finch is a master of the no foot movement midwicket drive for 4 along the carpet from outside off stump to a leg or off spinner.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I look it more the other way, in that the best T20 batsmen end up batting top three in their sides even if they don't do it other formats, just to make sure they're not wasted in the short innings. They end up with better stats partly because they open, but they open because they're better in the first place. The other blokes you mentioned earn lots in IPL through a mix of being over-rated and being seam-up allrounders.

No - it is the same way. They want to bat higher as a result of the skewing of the short innings, and they can because they're often the best.

But I wouldn't say Dre Russ and Pollard are overrated. Look at Pollard's record as a finisher (he was awful this season) - there's far fewer who can guide a team home chasing 10+ an over so frequently than who can shoot the lights out season after season batting in the top 3.

HowSTAT! IPL Player Analysis by Batting Position

Look at Pollard's numbers as a #6.

Dre Russ:

Look at his middle order SR - look what he does at 6 and 7:

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/IPL/PlayerPositions.asp?PlayerID=3836

These guys are as a rare as hen's teeth. Joe Root, Guptill, Amla - they leave the IPL AUCTION UNSIGNED!

Pollard barely bowls since 2014 in IPL (https://www.iplt20.com/teams/mumbai-indians/squad/210/kieron-pollard_, Dre Russ of course still does.

Just look at Amla in IPL:

https://www.iplt20.com/teams/kings-xi-punjab/squad/456/hashim-amla


He is just another top 3 batsman. There's enough of those to go around already.

Chennai (Dhoni/Bravo), Mumbai (Pandya, Panday, Pollard) and Kolkata (Dre Russ) typically have had the best middle orders and have won the most. I don't think it is a fluke. Despite Kohli/Gayle/ABdV for RCB or Dhawan/Warner for SRH (who's real strength is their bowling that is why they win of late).

 

[Borges]

I wonder if any anthropologists have done papers studying the life cycles of online communities. Derailing threads to ironically discuss masterchef surely indicates that the end is nigh

No, It indicates a great love (albeit of the perverse kind) for cricket.
When my team is in the process of getting humiliated, or has just been humiliated, the last thing I want to talk about is cricket.

 

[Burgey]

How is it possible that this place has gone further downhill since I stopped posting as much

You came back

 

[Shri]

I wonder if any anthropologists have done papers studying the life cycles of online communities. Derailing threads to ironically discuss masterchef surely indicates that the end is nigh

Whoa, you must be the quietest poster to rack up 10k posts here. I have never seen you much in the subforums that I frequent. Though I remember people complimenting your creative username back when you joinned.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No - it is the same way. They want to bat higher as a result of the skewing of the short innings, and they can because they're often the best.

But I wouldn't say Dre Russ and Pollard are overrated. Look at Pollard's record as a finisher (he was awful this season) - there's far fewer who can guide a team home chasing 10+ an over so frequently than who can shoot the lights out season after season batting in the top 3.

HowSTAT! IPL Player Analysis by Batting Position

Look at Pollard's numbers as a #6.

Dre Russ:

Look at his middle order SR - look what he does at 6 and 7:

HowSTAT! IPL Player Analysis by Batting Position

These guys are as a rare as hen's teeth. Joe Root, Guptill, Amla - they leave the IPL AUCTION UNSIGNED!

Pollard barely bowls since 2014 in IPL (https://www.iplt20.com/teams/mumbai-indians/squad/210/kieron-pollard_, Dre Russ of course still does.

Just look at Amla in IPL:

https://www.iplt20.com/teams/kings-xi-punjab/squad/456/hashim-amla


He is just another top 3 batsman. There's enough of those to go around already.

Chennai (Dhoni/Bravo), Mumbai (Pandya, Panday, Pollard) and Kolkata (Dre Russ) typically have had the best middle orders and have won the most. I don't think it is a fluke. Despite Kohli/Gayle/ABdV for RCB or Dhawan/Warner for SRH (who's real strength is their bowling that is why they win of late).

Nah man. You put any of those ATG sides down to 5 and 6 they'd probably be just as good as those guys. They just don't. Your brief stats on a season of Watson are hardly conclusive evidence of the contrary.

I agree that you could do with one of them in the ATG side though. Maybe even 2 if you get rid of a bowler as well. Take out Umar Gul and KP, put in 2 West Indian all-rounders if you'd prefer.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Nah man. You put any of those ATG sides down to 5 and 6 they'd probably be just as good as those guys. They just don't. Your brief stats on a season of Watson are hardly conclusive evidence of the contrary.

I agree that you could do with one of them in the ATG side though. Maybe even 2 if you get rid of a bowler as well. Take out Umar Gul and KP, put in 2 West Indian all-rounders if you'd prefer.

It was 2 seasons of Watto. He was dropped so often it looks like one season. I was furious as I had in my fantasy team for the 2016 tournament (I rate Watto). I was sure that he was going to be opening or batting 3 at the minimum.

You can claim that KP, Watto and McCullum would be fine and dandy in the middle order - but it isn't where they played. You want them in your team that way, that is fine by me. But I think batting in the top3 in T20 is a lot easier than batting at 5 or 6. It is the opposite to test matches. In more ways than one. To deny what Pollard has managed to achieve, and make a specialist career for himself is fine for you, but not something that sits comfortably with me. We can just agree to disagree.

The top 3 will not kick on every game, and these players are hard to find. Just look at India using Manish Pandey. He's horrid. But he's the best they have without putting a top order bat there (of which they have tonnnnnnnnnnnes).Or doubling down on Karthik and Dhoni. Or both with Hardick Pandya

 

[TheJediBrah]

It was 2 seasons of Watto. He was dropped so often it looks like one season. I was furious as I had in my fantasy team for the tournament (I rate Watto).

You can claim that KP, Watto and McCullum would be fine and dandy in the middle order - but it isn't where they played. You want them in your team that way, that is fine by me. But I think batting in the top3 in T20 is a lot easier than batting at 5 or 6. It is the opposite to test matches. In more ways than one. To deny what Pollard has managed to achieve, and make a specialist career for himself is fine for you, but not something that sits comfortably with me. We can just agree to disagree.

Doesn't seem like you actually read what I said. I'm not underrating them or "denying" anything they did. I'm barely even disagreeing with you, you've convinced me.

 

[cnerd123]

You came back

stop killing the forum Burgey

 

[Spikey]

arun finch

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Whoa, you must be the quietest poster to rack up 10k posts here. I have never seen you much in the subforums that I frequent. Though I remember people complimenting your creative username back when you joinned.

Just another pawn in the Mediocre New Zealand Poster Army

 

[cnerd123]

I'm watching the 172 and it just boggles me that this man has the stats that he does

I think he has an exceptional eye and his weird slog/bash/bang style is just really confusing for bowlers to adapt to which makes him crazy effective.

I wonder what his favourite post-game meal is

 

[Howe_zat]

***** you eating rotti and paneer today

Holy crap, it’s become self aware.

 

[quincywagstaff]

It does seem strange with the benefit of hindsight that Finch wasn't made ODI captain for the England series; seems a lot more practical than making Paine that as well as Test captain.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It does seem strange with the benefit of hindsight that Finch wasn't made ODI captain for the England series; seems a lot more practical than making Paine that as well as Test captain.

Plenty of us were saying how weird it was well before the series. It never should have been Paine, he was only made ODI captain as a result of the Cape Town fiasco and CA wanting continuity and a public relations-man at the helm. I get the feeling he was basically used as a short-term figurehead rather than a genuine prospect to actually stay in the ODI team, even for the near future, let alone captain it.

 

[slippy888]

Taskin Ahmed

Serious thread this one why this young man not progressed as a bowler he looked capable for a few months on being international standard then it went all down hill since the best days of his cricket career.

 

[nightprowler10]

As for Kaneria, I don't think he was misunderstood or a wasted talent. He just pretty much played at what was his level. Not the worst, not a great.

Pretty much this. He had a really good home series against England which made him look better than he was, but it was really just England's inability to play spin and their obsession for sweeping everything. Even Shoaib Malik had a 4-fer IIRC. An almost retired Lara destroyed him on those same pitches.

 

[jimmy101]

I'm not sure if I have anything to contribute here as I skipped breakfast this morning.

Managed to sneak in a coffee though.