***Official*** Sri Lanka Tour of West Indies 2018

[Maximas]

I wonder if 5 penalty runs (something that directly affects the state of the ongoing match) is the best penalty, given there's no real way to contest the charge in a timely manner

 

[cnerd123]

Okay so what's interesting here is that in order to apply 5 penalty runs, it seems they must also be able to identify the player(s) responsible, going off the 2017 ICC Test Match Playing Conditions

Interesting

So this means they know who did it, and they've informed the Match Referee, but I guess this accusations hasn't been made public yet.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Umpires thought the condition of the ball was changed unfairly so they awarded the penalty runs, informed captains and at the end of the match they are going to report it to the appropriate authorities who will take any further actions. I dont want to go into the argument that whether SL did tamper or not or the umpires' judgement about the conditions of the ball. Umpires acted within the rights and rules of the game. In their mind, the condition was changed unfairly but it does not mean it happened with 100% accuracy. They judged it. SL if they didnt like the umpires' decision should have appealed or lodged complains after the match with legal ways and within the rules of the game than becoming bunch of crybabies.

 

[cnerd123]

I wonder if 5 penalty runs (something that directly affects the state of the ongoing match) is the best penalty, given there's no real way to contest the charge in a timely manner

This is something, I've been informed, that the MCC frequently discusses. There are other ideas for penalties floated around, but none seem 'more' appropriate or fitting to the point where it justifies replacing the existing rule

But if they come up with something someday I'm sure it will be changed

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Okay so what's interesting here is that in order to apply 5 penalty runs, it seems they must also be able to identify the player(s) responsible, going off the 2017 ICC Test Match Playing Conditions

Interesting

So this means they know who did it, and they've informed the Match Referee, but I guess this accusations hasn't been made public yet.

I am not sure if they have to know with certainty or evidence to award the penalty runs. It could be the case where they already knew and informed it to match referee or they suspected. In either case they had to act because clearly (to them) the condition of the ball did not meet the three criterias according to the law.

 

[harsh.ag]

Demerit points for the captain (and the player involved, if identifiable) might be a good way of going forward instead of penalty runs.

 

[harsh.ag]

Okay so what's interesting here is that in order to apply 5 penalty runs, it seems they must also be able to identify the player(s) responsible, going off the 2017 ICC Test Match Playing Conditions

Interesting

So this means they know who did it, and they've informed the Match Referee, but I guess this accusations hasn't been made public yet.

Sure about this?

 

[Burgey]

Okay so what's interesting here is that in order to apply 5 penalty runs, it seems they must also be able to identify the player(s) responsible, going off the 2017 ICC Test Match Playing Conditions

Interesting

So this means they know who did it, and they've informed the Match Referee, but I guess this accusations hasn't been made public yet.

Evidence?

 

[Migara]

Again?

You can't take back penalty runs. Wrong decision or not

Penalty is given for a wrongdoing. If proven there is no wrongdoing, what is the way to review it's effects?

 

[Migara]

How can they be found clean, they've already been found guilty and punished in game, that is the end of the incident.in terms of the match.

Then there is no point allowing SL to contest the charges.

 

[cnerd123]

Sure about this?

See the pdf Borges linked, scroll to Law 41 Fair/Unfair Play and look for the section on condition of the ball

 

[cnerd123]

Penalty is given for a wrongdoing. If proven there is no wrongdoing, what is the way to review it's effects?

You are given caught behind for edging the ball. If you can prove after the fact that you didn't edge the ball, do you expect the batsman to be returned to the crease?

The ICC has laid down no punishment on any SL Cricketer as of yet. There is nothing to be reviewed. The 5 penalty runs is an onfield decision and that will stand regardless of what any investigation proves. If the umpires are in the wrong, this will be reflected in their post-match assesment and will affect how they are rated by the ICC, and thus what assignments they get in the future

 

[Burgey]

We need to talk about the collective SC propensity to throw a fit and threaten to decline to play. What is it that accounts for this collective toddler tantrum and victim complex?

 

[Migara]

You are given caught behind for edging the ball. If you can prove after the fact that you didn't edge the ball, do you expect the batsman to be returned to the crease?

The ICC has laid down no punishment on any SL Cricketer as of yet. There is nothing to be reviewed. The 5 penalty runs is an onfield decision and that will stand regardless of what any investigation proves. If the umpires are in the wrong, this will be reflected in their post-match assesment and will affect how they are rated by the ICC, and thus what assignments they get in the future

Exactly there is why DRS. The Umpires judgement of caught behind (or lack of it) is contested by the batsman / fielders, and DRS do a fact finding mission and gives a verdict. It might overturn umpire decision. If the ball was a no ball additional 1 run will be added too. Here everything is done, before the next ball is bowled.

Now giving penalty runs is the issue here because it can change the outcome of a match. Best way is to change the ball, and report to match officials for the punishments to be handed out. Awarding five runs complicates things.

And it was bloody hilarious, that Sri Lanka bowled better with the changed ball rather than the so called tampered ball, getting more swing, bounce, seam and reverse swing.

 

[Migara]

We need to talk about the collective SC propensity to throw a fit and threaten to decline to play. What is it that accounts for this collective toddler tantrum and victim complex?

We really don't know whose decision was it. May be SL management. If it was the case, players canmot be held responsible.

 

[cnerd123]

Nothing is complicated. The laws are clear. The umpires don't invoke this law on the whim. Instead of assuming victim mode and saying the players definitely didn't do anything wrong, you should instead be concerned that there is a strong possibility of ball tampering in the Sri Lanka camp, which was then followed by them throwing prolonged tantrum. Refusal to accept the word of the umpires is the most basic violation of the Spirit Of Cricket. This is absolutely horrendous attitude and is a disgrace to Sri Lankan cricket.

Worry about that instead of being penalised 5 measly runs.

 

[Burgey]

We really don't know whose decision was it. May be SL management. If it was the case, players canmot be held responsible.

But it’s a recurring theme. India threatens to go home after Sydney. Pakistan forfeits vs England. SL do this, and also the disgraceful Ranatunga walk off in Adelaide in the late 90s. Gavaskar in Melbourne in the early 80s. Bedi forfeits an innings on the WI in the 70s when things got a bit too tough. It’s dummy spit a-go-go.

If you want to carry on like that, go and sign a contract with Boca Juniors and act like a Prima Donna.

 

[Migara]

Nothing is complicated. The laws are clear. The umpires don't invoke this law on the whim. Instead of assuming victim mode and saying the players definitely didn't do anything wrong, you should instead be concerned that there is a strong possibility of ball tampering in the Sri Lanka camp, which was then followed by them throwing prolonged tantrum. Refusal to accept the word of the umpires is the most basic violation of the Spirit Of Cricket. This is absolutely horrendous attitude and is a disgrace to Sri Lankan cricket.

Worry about that instead of being penalized 5 measly runs.

Players have strongly refused such claims, and up to now, Sri Lankans have been very truthful about it. There were three occasions they were accused before, but eventually found out it was due to other factors rather than tampering. (Once it was crashing in to the concrete moat of the RPS). That is why I wait for the evidence.

The issue on penalty runs is nothing to do with the support I have. Next time SL might awarded five runs, but the situation is similar. "What if the umpire's judgement was wrong?". For decisions while play we have DRS and 3rd umpire. Since things like tampering is a larger case, there should be room to study the case later. In such context awarding five runs is stupid. Just changing the ball will do.

 

[cnerd123]

We need to talk about the collective SC propensity to throw a fit and threaten to decline to play. What is it that accounts for this collective toddler tantrum and victim complex?

You troll, but there is a serious problems in SC culture where people don't understand how to follow Laws. Laws are Guidelines to be argued and debated with in their eyes. No decision is final, everything can be negotiated, to accuse me of being wrong is to insult my character as a person, and punish me for breaking a rule is akin to spitting in my face. If you respect someone you never hold them accountable for their actions and you don't enforce the laws that are clearly written down in black and white that we all agreed to abide to. Anytime I've been punished for doing something wrong, I am the victim, because if you liked me and we're my friend you wouldn't have punished me. Because that's the subcontinental way.

Its a huge problem and quite frustrating to deal with. And now the Sri Lankans can't seem to accept a default stance of 'thess umpires are highly qualified, highly experienced and unbiased - let's just assume they know what they're talking about and be upset that our team put up so much drama's. No. Because in the SC when you get punished the first thing you do is debate the punishment instead of accepting that you might be wrong.

 

[Burgey]

Gonna be tough for them to play the race card this time given this happened vs WI.