Shakib Al Hasan vs Ian Botham / Burgey vs *****

[Mr Miyagi]

Yeah technically, but let's be honest here . . .

Sure, when Shakib does this to Australia in 1 out of his 2 tests against them, to list Australia as a weakness of his isn't being entirely honest.

1st Test, Australia tour of Bangladesh at Dhaka, Aug 27-30 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

And what is a major opponent?

 

[Daemon]

Sure, when Shakib does this to Australia in 1 out of his 2 tests against them, to list Australia as a weakness of his isn't being entirely honest.

1st Test, Australia tour of Bangladesh at Dhaka, Aug 27-30 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

Haha yeah was just about to post this. Trying to use Australia as his weakness is strange considering he set up the first game with his 84 and took a 10-fer in one of the two games he's played against them. It's a really small sample size to use averages.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Sure, when Shakib does this to Australia in 1 out of his 2 tests against them, to list Australia as a weakness of his isn't being entirely honest.

1st Test, Australia tour of Bangladesh at Dhaka, Aug 27-30 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

And what is a major opponent?

84 & 5? Solid I guess but nothing really special

Still Botham's batting average of 29 and 21 against WI and Aus isn't exactly spectacular compared to Shakib's.

Meh I'm not saying either one is better, I don't know enough about them. Just pointing out that the post in response to Red Hill's didn't really dispute anything he said.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

84 & 5? Solid I guess but nothing really special

Good enough to win the match by 20 runs. I thought it was a very special match. In fact, it is one of my all time favourite games ever, not involving NZ.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Good enough to win the match by 20 runs. I thought it was a very special match. In fact, it is one of my all time favourite games ever, not involving NZ.

Against Nathan Lyon, the left-hand specialist, on a raging dustbowl too. Solid effort.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Against Nathan Lyon, the left-hand specialist, on a raging dustbowl too. Solid effort.

Well Nathan Lyon is a decent spinner, but I fail to see why he would be rated highly as an all-rounder in a world context.

 

[fredfertang]

You can't have a meaningful comparison thread involving Ian Botham without specifying which Ian Botham you mean

If it's the one that lasted about five years then the answer is he was better than anyone. On the other hand if you're talking about the overweight, unfit and lazy prima donna who traded on past glories for a decade then he compares unfavourably to Khaled Mahmud, let alone Shakib

 

[cnerd123]

I feel you're all glossing over the fact that Botham's greatest performance came against a team whose keeper and leading fast bowler admitted to betting on themselves to lose.

Imagine if that happened in this day and age. Look at how we crucified Amir for taking money for no balls. #CheatingAussies #DoubleStandards.

 

[Maximas]

Isn't he? A lot of people say he is tbh

Didn't he run onto the field shirtless to argue with someone like last month? And destroy a changeroom or something?

What about that time he made lewd gestures to the TV cameras in that ODI a couple years back? The guy is a loose cannon

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah he's practically an Australian

 

[Red]

Sure, when Shakib does this to Australia in 1 out of his 2 tests against them, to list Australia as a weakness of his isn't being entirely honest.

1st Test, Australia tour of Bangladesh at Dhaka, Aug 27-30 2017 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

And what is a major opponent?

Haha yeah was just about to post this. Trying to use Australia as his weakness is strange considering he set up the first game with his 84 and took a 10-fer in one of the two games he's played against them. It's a really small sample size to use averages.

As i said, he's a decent spinner but I dont know what he's done to earn praise as an all rounder in a world context.

A major opponent in world cricket would be India, Aust, Eng or SA. The strongest teams during Shakib's career.

I'm not even saying he's a bad batsman, he's clearly not. But he has clearly underperformed with the bat against the top sides.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

As i said, he's a decent spinner but I dont know what he's done to earn praise as an all rounder in a world context.

A major opponent in world cricket would be India, Aust, Eng or SA. The strongest teams during Shakib's career.

I'm not even saying he's a bad batsman, he's clearly not. But he has clearly underperformed with the bat against the top sides.

Why not NZ? They've been in the top 4 most of the past 4 years. Why not Pakistan? They were number 1 not that long ago.

And if there's all these minor opponents, why did Australia lose last in UAE, SL and only draw in Bangladesh?

Well - I guess the rest of us know why Australia drew in Bangladesh.

"top sides"

 

[Red]

You can't have a meaningful comparison thread involving Ian Botham without specifying which Ian Botham you mean

If it's the one that lasted about five years then the answer is he was better than anyone. On the other hand if you're talking about the overweight, unfit and lazy prima donna who traded on past glories for a decade then he compares unfavourably to Khaled Mahmud, let alone Shakib

Super important point. Botham scored 1000 runs and took 100 wickets in his first 21 matches. That's staggering all round stuff. Cant deny that he got lazy and fat in the end, but he was so good early.

 

[Red]

Why not NZ? They've been in the top 4 most of the past 4 years. Why not Pakistan? They were number 1.

And if there's all these minor opponents, why did Australia lose last in UAE, SL and only draw in Bangladesh?

Well - I guess the rest of us know why Australia drew in Bangladesh.

I'm not actually that keen to have an argument. I just pointed out a fact that overall, he's struggled against the stronger nations with the bat.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I'm not actually that keen to have an argument. I just pointed out a fact that overall, he's struggled against the stronger nations with the bat.

Well then I agree. He hasn't done a lot with the bat against India and South Africa.

But he has done more than enough overall against mid-tier nations like Australia, England, New Zealand, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

But in Botham's day, there was pretty much only WI for the majority of it, and he didn't do well against them neither.

 

[TheJediBrah]

And if there's all these minor opponents, why did Australia lose last in UAE, SL and only draw in Bangladesh?

Well thats easy to answer. They can't play spin and, with the exception of uae, got raging dustbowls prepared for them.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Well thats easy to answer. They can't play spin and, with the exception of uae, got raging dustbowls prepared for them.

And seam and swing seems to further thwart them in England and South Africa.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Shakib - Botham is pretty close, but possibly still Beefy but that will probably change if teams stop cancelling series against Bangladesh.

IMO Shakib is the 3rd best allrounder of the 21st century behind Kallis and Pollock. I rate him ahead of Cairns, Ashwin, Vettori, Flintoff, Oram and Watson.

 

[Adders]

Yeah he's practically an Australian

C'mon mate....he might be a dick but he's not sunk to those depths.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Shakib - Botham is pretty close, but possibly still Beefy but that will probably change if teams stop cancelling series against Bangladesh.

IMO Shakib is the 3rd best allrounder of the 21st century behind Kallis and Pollock. I rate him ahead of Cairns, Ashwin, Vettori, Flintoff, Oram and Watson.

Fun fact about S Pollock. He scored only 2 test centuries, but both of them were scored while batting at 9, due to Kallis, Boje, and Kleusner in one game and Kemp in the other, batting ahead of him. This is the record for number of test centuries while batting at 9.

Safrica, like NZ if not more so - do seem very fond of producing and playing all rounders.