• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Wastemen etc

Who the better batsman

  • Ajay Jadeja

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Mahmudullah

    Votes: 10 83.3%

  • Total voters
    12

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Right. You have embarrassed me yet again; and I'm red in the face now. What else is new?
Why do you post here if you don't want to talk about cricket, or at least engage in a bit of levity? You always just seem to be trying to start fights, or jump in on fights, and I don't understand what you get out of it? You're not providing any value to yourself or anyone else by doing it, I'm sure.
 

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
you need to work on your reading comprehension



Reading comprehension is the key.

edit: I don't want to come across as harsh, because I understand English may not be your first language and I'm sure you speak it far better than I would speak your language.
Why is it everytime in a debate you say something like this? Not literally, its everytime. What degree in English language you hold other than that English happens to be your first language?
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Why is it everytime in a debate you say something like this? Not literally, its everytime. What degree in English language you hold other than that English happens to be your first language?
I understand English may not be your first language AZH, but please fix that :ph34r:
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Haha I thought people use the term 'literally' in informal way to describe something with precision but not actually with 100% accuracy

The modern definitions of literally now include 'figuratively' which is the antonym to what the word initially meant which was synonymous to "actually". So now the one word can be used correctly in both situations.
 
Last edited:

Mr Miyagi

Banned
It's because you've been trying to argue with me this whole time about something that I was never even talking about

you need to work on your reading comprehension



It's not that you're unintelligent, you just need to to pay more close attention to what people are saying and not what you want them to be saying so that you can argue with them. Reading comprehension is the key.

edit: I don't want to come across as harsh, because I understand English may not be your first language and I'm sure you speak it far better than I would speak your language.

Ftr I do talk a lot of **** as well. I wasn't entirely serious about Asia being a **** place, it's just banter. Except Pakistan. You couldn't pay enough to go there.
With respect, it is not as though I don't recognise the fact that you're communicating to me in English and I don't want to come across as harsh but logic transcends language, so either elucidate my (unintentional through poor reading comprehension or intentional) supposed straw man, or don't.

If you feel or better yet have a reason how I have taken something out of context with your earlier argument, specify it, explain why it is so.

Not even in the same ballpark. Things were very different back then, for many reasons, and while I wouldn't really want to go to South Africa the country if I didn't really have to, the facilities and state of living is still a lot better than what you'd get in Asia. Especially back in the 70s. You'd have to pay me a lot to stay in India or Sri Lanka or (god forbid) Pakistan for weeks on end.
Did you miss the part where Asia is not a nice play to visit? I'm not saying that South Africa is much better, stay there for long enough and getting murdered is basically a statistical certainty, but as a touring sportsman Asia in the 70s doesn't even compare to South Africa in 2017.

And besides money is more than a good enough reason by itself. They would have earned **** all for the tour back then, and I don't know why you bring up Shakib's earnings as if they are somehow relevant.
What on earth is Shakib paid in these if not money or measurable in money? Just love and affection?

Your argument, without straw man, appears to have been - that it was okay for Chappell and Lillee missed tours to "unpleasant" Asian countries cos they weren't paid enough to tour there. Yet, you say that Safrica is an "unpleasant" country to tour, just not as "unpleasant", but its not okay for Shakib to prioritise earning T20 money over that tour (as ***** noted as BCB players get paid comparatively poorly and this is arguably what Shakib had done), and this will wipe away his credit over the last 11 years or anytime in the future.

Sorry - I am not persuaded. If money is a legitimate factor in not touring "unpleasant" countries without losing credit, then Shakib meets the bill. He prioritised earning money and missed a tour through feeling exhausted and put his feet up. Lillee presumably didn't earn as much money as he could by not playing at all because according to you he wasn't paid enough to tour an unpleasant country and missed a tour and put his feet up. Likewise Shakib isn't paid enough to tour "unpleasant" countries by the BCB when he has better earning opportunities elsewhere to push himself into feeling exhausted. Chappell prioritised earning money and missed a tour cos he worked elsewhere. Which is also pretty much what Shakib has done, the only difference being when they did the work to prioritise earning the money, and when they took a break.
 
Last edited:

Flem274*

123/5
I've always secretly wanted Andy Ellis to play 10-20 tests just to see what the epitome of a domestic battler allrounder can do.

I guess we're kinda getting that with CdG but he's always been a ridiculous talent with the bat, just a really brainless one. Ellis is a true hard worker who became a hero for his team.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
I've always secretly wanted Andy Ellis to play 10-20 tests just to see what the epitome of a domestic battler allrounder can do.

I guess we're kinda getting that with CdG but he's always been a ridiculous talent with the bat, just a really brainless one. Ellis is a true hard worker who became a hero for his team.
I think NZ's form of the last 5 years has shown what can be achieved when there's sufficient talent to keep the likes of Andy Ellis out of the side.

Ellis in some ways has been unfortunate to coincide with Vettorri, Oram, Franklin and Elliott previously,and certainly Anderson, Neesham and CDG of late. He certainly would have played in much weaker NZ eras.

At 36, if CDG is injured next test, is Ellis a chance at replacing CDG?:
 
Last edited:

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
With respect, it is not as though I don't recognise the fact that you're communicating to me in English and I don't want to come across as harsh but logic transcends language, so either elucidate my (unintentional through poor reading comprehension or intentional) supposed straw man, or don't.

If you feel or better yet have a reason how I have taken something out of context with your earlier argument, specify it, explain why it is so.





What on earth is Shakib paid in these if not money or measurable in money? Just love and affection?

Your argument, without straw man, appears to have been - that it was okay for Chappell and Lillee missed tours to "unpleasant" Asian countries cos they weren't paid enough to tour there. Yet, you say that Safrica is an "unpleasant" country to tour, just not as "unpleasant", but its not okay for Shakib to prioritise earning T20 money over that tour (as ***** noted as BCB players get paid comparatively poorly), and this will wipe away his credit over the last 11 years or anytime in the future.

Sorry - I am not persuaded. If money is a legitimate factor in not touring "unpleasant" countries without losing credit, then Shakib meets the fold.
You still haven't listened to a word I've said. What is your point?

You're still arguing about something completely different. I've directly stated this to you but you still don't seem to understand. I never said Shakib wasn't the greatest All-Rounder ever, I never said he wasn't literally a god. I was never talking about quality of the player in any way, shape, or form. You just latched onto it and are still going despite me directly stating it to you several times now.

Tell me in one concise sentence, exactly what you disagree with.

Why is it everytime in a debate you say something like this? Not literally, its everytime. What degree in English language you hold other than that English happens to be your first language?
Honestly I'm just trying to be polite. I don't want to to come across as belittling someone for not understanding English if it might be their second language, because as I said they're doing well to even be using it. Compared to me, if I was using a second language I wouldn't be anywhere near as good. I'm just trying to convey respect, but I understand how easily it could be misunderstood.
 
Last edited:

Mr Miyagi

Banned
You still haven't listened to a word I've said. What is your point?

You're still arguing about something completely different. I've directly stated this to you but you still don't seem to understand. I never said Shakib wasn't the greatest All-Rounder ever, I never said he wasn't literally a god. I was never talking about quality of the player in any way, shape, or form. You just latched onto it and are still going despite me directly stating it to you several times now.

Tell me in one concise sentence, exactly what you disagree with.



Honestly I'm just trying to be polite. I don't want to to come across as belittling someone for not understanding English if it might be their second language, because as I said they're doing well to even be using it. Compared to me, if I was using a second language I wouldn't be anywhere near as good. I'm just trying to convey respect, but I understand how easily it could be misunderstood.
Did you miss the part where Asia is not a nice play to visit? I'm not saying that South Africa is much better, stay there for long enough and getting murdered is basically a statistical certainty, but as a touring sportsman Asia in the 70s doesn't even compare to South Africa in 2017.

And besides money is more than a good enough reason by itself. They would have earned **** all for the tour back then, and I don't know why you bring up Shakib's earnings as if they are somehow relevant.
What on earth is Shakib paid in these if not money or measurable in money? Just love and affection?

Your argument, without straw man, appears to have been - that it was okay for Chappell and Lillee missed tours to "unpleasant" Asian countries cos they weren't paid enough to tour there. Yet, you say that Safrica is an "unpleasant" country to tour, just not as "unpleasant", but its not okay for Shakib to prioritise earning T20 money over that tour (as ***** noted as BCB players get paid comparatively poorly and this is arguably what Shakib had done), and this will wipe away his credit over the last 11 years or anytime in the future.

Sorry - I am not persuaded. If money is a legitimate factor in not touring "unpleasant" countries without losing credit, then Shakib meets the bill. He prioritised earning money and missed a tour through feeling exhausted and put his feet up. Lillee presumably didn't earn as much money as he could by not playing at all because according to you he wasn't paid enough to tour an unpleasant country and missed a tour and put his feet up. Likewise Shakib isn't paid enough to tour "unpleasant" countries by the BCB when he has better earning opportunities elsewhere to push himself into feeling exhausted. Chappell prioritised earning money and missed a tour cos he worked elsewhere. Which is also pretty much what Shakib has done, the only difference being when they did the work to prioritise earning the money, and when they took a break.
 
Last edited:

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
People from western countries in the 50s/60s/70s didn't want to tour subcontinental countries because it was **** conditions and they didn't want to get hepatitis or dystentry and perhaps die (or be incapacitated for a year/years)

I'm not sure why Shakib didn't tour SA but he probably should have.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
People from western countries in the 50s/60s/70s didn't want to tour subcontinental countries because it was **** conditions and they didn't want to get hepatitis or dystentry and perhaps die (or be incapacitated for a year/years)

I'm not sure why Shakib didn't tour SA but he probably should have.
I'm not going to call Chappell a liar - but he said he missed tours in the 1980's for business reasons. I am not sure on whether it was the 70's 80's or both for Lillee.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
What on earth is Shakib paid in these if not money or measurable in money? Just love and affection?

Your argument, without straw man, appears to have been - that it was okay for Chappell and Lillee missed tours to "unpleasant" Asian countries cos they weren't paid enough to tour there. Yet, you say that Safrica is an "unpleasant" country to tour, just not as "unpleasant", but its not okay for Shakib to prioritise earning T20 money over that tour (as ***** noted as BCB players get paid comparatively poorly and this is arguably what Shakib had done), and this will wipe away his credit over the last 11 years or anytime in the future.

Sorry - I am not persuaded. If money is a legitimate factor in not touring "unpleasant" countries without losing credit, then Shakib meets the bill. He prioritised earning money and missed a tour through feeling exhausted and put his feet up. Lillee presumably didn't earn as much money as he could by not playing at all because according to you he wasn't paid enough to tour an unpleasant country and missed a tour and put his feet up. Likewise Shakib isn't paid enough to tour "unpleasant" countries by the BCB when he has better earning opportunities elsewhere to push himself into feeling exhausted. Chappell prioritised earning money and missed a tour cos he worked elsewhere. Which is also pretty much what Shakib has done, the only difference being when they did the work to prioritise earning the money, and when they took a break.
I still don't see a relevant point in there any where. Can you really not just tell me in 1 sentence what you disagree with?

These walls of text aren't helping anything, just further confusion.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
I still don't see a relevant point in there any where. Can you really not just tell me in 1 sentence what you disagree with?

These walls of text aren't helping anything, just further confusion.
I'm sorry that you find a few paragraphs too arduous to read. I disagree with 3 sentences:

That's a pretty big mis-step though. All the bemoaning in the world of his limited opportunities rings pretty hollow when he just decided not to bother playing possibly the toughest away tour Bangladesh have. Wipes away any credit he had with that one action IMO
 
Last edited:

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I'm sorry that you find few paragraphs too arduous to read. I disagree with 3 sentences:
Well that's clearly 100% a matter of opinion. Whether or not you feel sorry for someone for not getting to play a lot of tests, when they actively ignore prestigious tours is up to you. For me it's pretty clear that if it's not important to him, I'm not going to feel sorry for poor shakib not getting to play tests.

Why you brought up lillee and Chappell is still beyond me. They played plenty of tests and the 70s was a very different time for a lot of reasons.
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Well that's clearly 100% a matter of opinion. Whether or not you feel sorry for someone for not getting to play a lot of tests, when they actively ignore prestigious tours is up to you. For me it's pretty clear that if it's not important to him, I'm not going to feel sorry for poor shakib not getting to play tests.

Why you brought up lillee and Chappell is still beyond me. They played plenty of tests and the 70s was a very different time for a lot of reasons.

Can you really not reply to me in one sentence? ;)
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
Well that's clearly 100% a matter of opinion.
Well of course it is.

Whether or not you feel sorry for someone for not getting to play a lot of tests, when they actively ignore prestigious tours is up to you. For me it's pretty clear that if it's not important to him, I'm not going to feel sorry for poor shakib not getting to play tests.
Whether I feel sorry for him or not is irrelevant. I have not stated any personal sympathy to Shakib. He may be a totally unlikeable prick for all I know. I merely offered him as a talented player who has been denied the opportunity of chasing down the records of the greats. Do I think BCB and their players do not get a fair go through a dearth of matches? Sure I do.

Why you brought up lillee and Chappell is still beyond me. They played plenty of tests and the 70s was a very different time for a lot of reasons.
To see how consistent your reasoning would be on what are legitimate reasons to miss tours without losing credit.
 
Last edited:

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well of course it is.



Whether I feel sorry for him or not is irrelevant. I have not stated any personal sympathy to Shakib. He may be a totally unlikeable prick for all I know. I merely offered him as a talented player who has been denied the opportunity of chasing down the records of the greats. Do I think BCB and their players do not get a fair go through a dearth of matches? Sure I do.



To see how consistent your reasoning would be on what are legitimate reasons to miss tours without losing credit.
There's that straw man again. What "credit"? Lillee and Chappell played for Australia didn't they? They didn't have a dearth of Test matches. Even ignoring the issues of safety/health touring Asia, money, lack of T20 as an alternative even existing etc. it's already completely irrelevant. You can say that you don't count Lillee's career at all because he refused to tour Asia, or you can say he's literally the devil because you hate moustaches. Don't care, nothing to do with what I'm saying.

All you had to say was "I don't hold it against him maybe he just wanted a break" or something like that. You didn't have to invent all this other stuff to be arguing about dude
 

Mr Miyagi

Banned
That's a pretty big mis-step though. All the bemoaning in the world of his limited opportunities rings pretty hollow when he just decided not to bother playing possibly the toughest away tour Bangladesh have. Wipes away any credit he had with that one action IMO
There's that straw man again. What "credit"? Lillee and Chappell played for Australia didn't they? They didn't have a dearth of Test matches. Even ignoring the issues of safety/health touring Asia, money, lack of T20 as an alternative even existing etc. it's already completely irrelevant. You can say that you don't count Lillee's career at all because he refused to tour Asia, or you can say he's literally the devil because you hate moustaches. Don't care, nothing to do with what I'm saying.

All you had to say was "I don't hold it against him maybe he just wanted a break" or something like that. You didn't have to invent all this other stuff to be arguing about dude
.
 

Top