South Africa team selection

[StephenZA]

Phehlukwayo is a perfect example of trying to give maximum opportunity to talented black players.... he did not perform in the end and was dropped from the Test team. Being replaced by an Morris and Mulder. Still think Phehlukwayo could end up being a great asset to the LO side.

 

[Dendarii]

I met Errol Stewart when I was in Durban for the Aus Test match, and according to him Phehlukwayo only played because we had already won the series. He also said that no person will ever play for South Africa unless they deserve it.

I actually don't mind someone like Phehlukwayo being given a chance, so I'm perfectly happy with him being given a go against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, but I'm not entirely convinced that it should have also been done against India. If his first class record were better then I'd have fewer reservations, but he doesn't really make the side based solely on either of his disciplines, but rather that he does both reasonably well. So against weaker sides I have no problem with his selection, but right now I don't think he's good enough to have completely justified his selection to play the top-ranked test side, even if the series had been won.

 

[Rasimione]

On of the issues I have with the anti-quota brigade is that it usually gets presented as "Quotas are destroying South Africa cricket. Here's a ridiculous selection decision to back that up." when it's not as though other countries are immune to making dubious selections, and it's not as though the South Africa selections were entirely without merit. Even the oft-quoted Philander over Abbott wasn't the worst call that could have been made (that would have been Parnell instead of Abbott), as there was a case for Philander's selection even if it wasn't as strong as the case for Abbott.

In fact, I can't think of too many questionable selections as a result of quotas - Phehlukwayo playing a test against India does come to mind, but other than that there have been justifiable cricketing reasons for the selections. Yes, quotas may have played a role in things like Duminy's continued selection, but so did his domestic form and his being a senior player who has been part of the side in various forms for a long time.

I'm not a fan of quotas, but I realise that they're probably a necessary evil given the broader context. And while they might be making things awkward at domestic level, when it comes to the national side for the most part they've been handled in a sensible manner.

Qoutas might be "hampering" franchise cricket but there's absolutely no white player that has been denied an opportunity because of qoutas. I'm also willing to bet that in the recent past, white players have made more debut than POC. Dale Steyn made his debut after 7 first class matches. Can you imagine what would have been written about him if he was a POC?

 

[Rasimione]

Don't get me started on Roussow. He would have been an LO regular and a shoe in for a Test place in a year or two if he didn't go Kolpak. I sympathized with Abbot and Garner, but Roussow was never unfairly overlooked imo. He had injuries.

Russouw got given bad advice. He was at the gates of heaven and just gave up knocking. The guy was on the same path that Faf took to the top, instead he misread the whole situation.

 

[Rasimione]

Phehlukwayo is a perfect example of trying to give maximum opportunity to talented black players.... he did not perform in the end and was dropped from the Test team. Being replaced by an Morris and Mulder. Still think Phehlukwayo could end up being a great asset to the LO side.

Phehlukwayo the ODI player I'm ok with to be honest.

 

[Bolo]

That India test was one of the very few examples of a poc absolutely not belonging and being stuck in on quotas alone.

As an ODI player, I'm not sure yet, but he's worth a run for sure. We badly need some all-round power. His colour is a bonus on this one- while it potentially got him into the picture quicker it would be worth giving him a decent run if there were no quotas.

I want to see him improving as a bowler if he's going to play long term. I feel like he has a higher ceiling on his bowling, but his performances are making him look like a batting allrounder. He's 22 though. Extremely young for a bowler to rely on guile and lots of time to develop.

 

[Marius]

Phehlukwayo the ODI player I'm ok with to be honest.

That India test was one of the very few examples of a poc absolutely not belonging and being stuck in on quotas alone.

As an ODI player, I'm not sure yet, but he's worth a run for sure. We badly need some all-round power. His colour is a bonus on this one- while it potentially got him into the picture quicker it would be worth giving him a decent run if there were no quotas.

I want to see him improving as a bowler if he's going to play long term. I feel like he has a higher ceiling on his bowling, but his performances are making him look like a batting allrounder. He's 22 though. Extremely young for a bowler to rely on guile and lots of time to develop.

I'm happy to have him in the ODI side, good death bowler and we know he can bat. Think he's a yard short of pace to be a Test level bowler though - he certainly doesn't deserve to be in the Test side now, but who knows in a few years?

 

[StephenZA]

I do think that Phehlukwayo got given a hard deal in the Tests batting at 8 and maybe bowling 10 overs, if they do pick him then he needs to play and be given a role (I know I'm going on about that a lot, but I do think it is important). In the LO side I think his role is a bit better defined. I would like to see him work on his death bowling and batting at 7/8 as a big boundary hitter. Long term I see him more as a batting allrounder, unless he picks up much more pace, but he also needs to improve his batting, got the eye but not the technicality.

 

[akilana]

That's how I remember it. In fact if we are being honest, the one who got the short end of the stick in all this is Van Zyl. He was asked to open and he failed. If Russouw had waited for his chance like everyone else, he would probably have made his debut Long ago.

He waited far too long while Duminy was playing teats without scoring any runs and Bavuma being preferred. He should have been given a crack in test long before.

Bavuma/Andile etc didn’t have to wait for their chances while Russow had to toil in domestic cricket over many years.

Some people claiming that Russow being persisted in ODI as a sign of no quota. He deseved his chances in both formats but his test spot was given to some other players not based on talent.

Even the government is open about this quota so I don’t know why we have to pretend to ourselves that there is no quota. It’s a sensitive topic but people can be honest.

 

[Bolo]

He waited far too long while Duminy was playing teats without scoring any runs and Bavuma being preferred. He should have been given a crack in test long before.

Bavuma/Andile etc didn’t have to wait for their chances while Russow had to toil in domestic cricket over many years.

Some people claiming that Russow being persisted in ODI as a sign of no quota. He deseved his chances in both formats but his test spot was given to some other players not based on talent.

Even the government is open about this quota so I don’t know why we have to pretend to ourselves that there is no quota. It’s a sensitive topic but people can be honest.

No serious cricket fan thinks eveything about quotas is good. You either:

1) Support them because they have been implemented for the greater good and accept that there will be some short term damage to both team strength and the careers of white players
2) Do not support them for the damage above.

Take your pick, or go somewhere in the middle. Whatever way though, accept them. They aren't going anywhere because you don't like them. Don't ruin your experience of cricket by reducing everything to quotas or looking for a quota boogeyman everywhere. You'd appreciate the team a lot more.

 

[Dendarii]

Bavuma/Andile etc didn’t have to wait for their chances while Russow had to toil in domestic cricket over many years.

Rossouw made his first-class debut a year before Bavuma and would have made his test debut ahead of him if he hadn't been injured. So it's not as though Rossouw had "toiled" for that much longer than Bavuma.

And De Bruyn (who has a better first-class average than Rossouw) made his test debut three years after his first-class debut, compared with Bavuma who took six years. So deserving white players are still making the team.

Even the government is open about this quota so I don’t know why we have to pretend to ourselves that there is no quota. It’s a sensitive topic but people can be honest.

Nobody's pretending that there aren't any quotas. What we're arguing against is the claim that non-white players are being picked purely because of their skin colour and not for legitimate cricket reasons (although we will accept that skin colour may have helped), and also that deserving white players aren't being picked. Starting from the series against the West Indies in which injury robbed Rossouw of an opportunity for a test debut sixteen new players have been capped by South Africa, ten of them white. Quotas didn't keep them out of a side which is tough to get into in the first place given the calibre of players currently there and how few openings there have been. Sometimes players get a chance at international selection very early in their career and sometimes it can take a while (e.g. Mike Hussey) and for all sorts of reasons, not just quotas when it comes to South Africa.

 

[Rasimione]

No serious cricket fan thinks eveything about quotas is good. You either:

1) Support them because they have been implemented for the greater good and accept that there will be some short term damage to both team strength and the careers of white players
2) Do not support them for the damage above.

Take your pick, or go somewhere in the middle. Whatever way though, accept them. They aren't going anywhere because you don't like them. Don't ruin your experience of cricket by reducing everything to quotas or looking for a quota boogeyman everywhere. You'd appreciate the team a lot more.

He only sees players as qoutas when they fail. Go figure.

 

[SeamUp]

RIP Jerome Ngidi (Father of Lungi)

He has left the IPL to return home.

 

[StephenZA]

RIP Jerome Ngidi (Father of Lungi)

He has left the IPL to return home.

Sad news indeed. He got to see his son play for SA. Sympathies to his family. RIP

 

[SeamUp]

So only 5 tests next home summer. Already lost 1 to India this summer. Losing 1 for SRL tour & now losing 1 v Zim and 1 v SRL at home.

Test cricket really fading away slowly isn't it ? It's quite conceivable that some of our experienced core have 7 tests left.

Other thing to highlight is Centurion getting Boxing day test.

ZIMBABWE TOUR ITINERARY 2018

September 30 : 10h00, 1st Momentum ODI, Diamond Oval, Kimberley (Day)

October 3 : 13h00, 2nd Momentum ODI, Mangaung Oval, Bloemfontein (D/N)

October 6 : 13h00, 3rd Momentum ODI, Eurolux Boland Park, Paarl (D/N)

October 9 : 18h00, 1st KFC T20 International, Buffalo Park, East London (D/N)

October 12 : 18h00, 2nd KFC T20 International, Senwes Park, Potchefstroom (D/N)

October 14 : 14h30, 3rd KFC T20 International, Willowmoore Park, Benoni (Day)

PAKISTAN TOUR ITINERARY 2018/19

December 19-21: 10h00, Three-day tour match v SA Invitation XI, Willowmoore Park, Benoni

December 26-30: 10h00, 1st Sunfoil test match, SuperSport Park, Centurion

January 3-7 : 10h30, 2nd Sunfoil test match, PPC Newlands, Cape Town

January 11-15 : 10h00, 3rd Sunfoil test match, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg

January 19 : 13h00, 1st Momentum ODI, St. George’s Park, Port Elizabeth (D/N)

January 22 : 13h00, 2nd Momentum ODI, Kingsmead, Durban (D/N)

January 25 : 13h00, 3rd Momentum ODI, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

January 27 : 10h00, 4th Momentum ODI, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg (Day)

January 30 : 13h00, 5th Momentum ODI, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

February 1 : 18h00, 1st KFC T20 International, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

February 3 : 14h30, 2nd KFC T20 International, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg (Day)

February 6 : 18h00, 3rd KFC T20 International, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

SRI LANKA TOUR ITINERARY 2019

February 13-17 : 10h00, 1st Sunfoil test match, Kingsmead, Durban

February 21-25 : 10h00, 2nd Sunfoil test match, St. George’s Park, Port Elizabeth

February 28 : 10h00, One-Day tour match v SA Invitation XI, Willowmoore Park, Benoni (Day)

March 3 : 10h00, 1st Momentum ODI, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg (Day)

March 6 : 13h00, 2nd Momentum ODI, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

March 10 : 10h00, 3rd Momentum ODI, Kingsmead, Durban (Day)

March 13 : 13h00, 4th Momentum ODI, St. George’s Park, Port Elizabeth (D/N)

March 16 : 13h00, 5th Momentum ODI, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

March 19 : 18h00, 1st KFC T20 International, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

March 22 : 18h00, 2nd KFC T20 International, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

March 24 : 14h30, 3rd KFC T20 International, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium (Day)

 

[StephenZA]

So only 5 tests next home summer. Already lost 1 to India this summer. Losing 1 for SRL tour & now losing 1 v Zim and 1 v SRL at home.

Test cricket really fading away slowly isn't it ?

Other thing to highlight is Centurion getting Boxing day test.

I don't think that much, it was not like we used to have many 4/5 Test tours, particularly with WI / SL / Pakistan. What is a bigger worry, is you can see the public is already bored with the T20 stuff and attendance in the ODI's has dropped...

 

[Marius]

Nice to see Centurion get the Boxing Day Test - I'm sure it'll get a good crowd. After Newlands Centurion is probably the best supported ground in the country.

 

[SeamUp]

I don't think that much, it was not like we used to have many 4/5 Test tours, particularly with WI / SL / Pakistan. What is a bigger worry, is you can see the public is already bored with the T20 stuff and attendance in the ODI's has dropped...

Be good to have 6 test summers but I guess we got to live with Sri Lanka not being financially viable home and away. So 2 test series will become norm.

India don't want to play 4 tests in SA so only Aus and England could compensate for a 2 test series.

It's just the ease with which tests are cut.

Noticed that. Also loads of T20s

 

[SeamUp]

Nice to see Centurion get the Boxing Day Test - I'm sure it'll get a good crowd. After Newlands Centurion is probably the best supported ground in the country.

Time of year and Highvelders spending their extra dosh holidaying on the coast a myth ?

 

[StephenZA]

Time of year and Highvelders spending their extra dosh holidaying on the coast a myth ?

Not even the Gautengers can afford to go on holiday anymore... even if it is just down to the coast.