I'm expecting him to have an excellent career, but I was also expecting much of bats like Rossouw, Stiaan and Duminy, or bowlers like De Lange, Parnell, Abbott, or Tahir in tests. For every 3 talents I'm sure will kick on to a great career, 2 fail for every success. I prefer not to rely on anyone until they have properly proven themselves these days, although I'd be lying if I said I wasn't willing to take a blind leap of optimistic faith on Rabada after watching him bowl 2 overs, so I can see where you are coming from on Markham.
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South Africa team selection
- Thread starter StephenZA
- Start date
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Rossouw and Duminy were talented... Russouw would be playing for SA LO definite, and in the test squad instead of de Bruyn. Duminy was one of those that did not reach his potential. Stiaan was not on that level. But Markram has already done more in one series than Duminy did his entire career. Parnell became a disappointment, but that was as much to injury as anything else, losing his swing. Abbott would have been in both Test and LO team/squad, now. De Lange was fast, but nothing else really. Tahir should never have been picked for the test team (that was more lack of SA spinners), but clearly has proven himself for LO.
The last line you say is the truth. Markram is that sort of quality.
Plenty of different reasons for careers to fail, takes a lot falling into place for one to come right.
Markham has done more to inspire confidence than any of those guys though, and more than most of them put together, so confidence isnt misplaced. I just prefer cautious optimism, after seeing so many hopefuls fail. Particularly considering the difference in formats. Not that he needs to adjust his test batting much to ODIs though- he looks ideally suited to ODIs
Markham has done more to inspire confidence than any of those guys though, and more than most of them put together, so confidence isnt misplaced. I just prefer cautious optimism, after seeing so many hopefuls fail. Particularly considering the difference in formats. Not that he needs to adjust his test batting much to ODIs though- he looks ideally suited to ODIs
Rasimione
U19 Captain
Not this nonsense again. Go check Duminy's stats at Franchise level, if you did, you wouldn't be saying this. Duminy might have failed/dissapointed at test level but he's no way a qouta player. He deserved to be there on merit, and it's these attacks on players of colour tha are bloody unfair.
To add to this,Bavuma was equally worthy of a test debut as Rossouw. Bavuma may have got the nod ahead of Rossouw on quotas, but if there were no quotas it might have been the same result anyway. After this, all Rossouw had to do was wait a while for his shot. He didn't and went kolpak, which is why he never got a test cap.
Quotas exist and don't do white players too many favours, but I seriously doubt a player with real potential has ever missed a chance to play for RSA on the basis of quotas
Rasimione
U19 Captain
Thank you!
akilana
International 12th Man
No. Bavuma wasn’t equally worthy or anything. Russow travelled with A team for longer and done well, even has hundreds in Sri Lanka. He dominated for a long time and just seeing them play, it’s obvious Bavuma isn’t in the same class. bavuma. Duminy should have been dropped for Russow but because of quota he wasn’t.
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akilana
International 12th Man
He deserved a spot in the side based on domestic record but after his repeated failures, he should have been dropped just like Van Zyl and other players were.
Dendarii
International Debutant
He was. But after being dropped he scored a lot of runs domestically, including a big double hundred, which earned him a recall. He failed and was dropped again, this time for good, but Rossouw was no longer available as to replace him.
Dendarii
International Debutant
It actually wasn't quotas that gave Bavuma the nod initially, but rather Rossouw being injured at the start of the series in which Bavuma made his debut, so while there was a bit of good fortune their he did take his opportunity - he may not have piled on the runs, but he played a lot of crucial knocks in difficult situations, thereby doing enough to retain his place. And Van Zyl made his debut the match before Bavuma did, which surely wouldn't have been the case if it was all about quotas.
Rasimione
U19 Captain
That's how I remember it. In fact if we are being honest, the one who got the short end of the stick in all this is Van Zyl. He was asked to open and he failed. If Russouw had waited for his chance like everyone else, he would probably have made his debut Long ago.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Domingo was actually quite upset when Rossouw went kolpak, had invested quite a bit of time into him, even continuing to give him opportunity in the LO side after he started so abysmally. He would have been playing these tests while Bavuma was out injured and if he had showed better than de Bruyn would have been difficult to drop. Also we would be talking about Rossouw instead of Klaasens as no 6. And he would have probably been given his chance much earlier.
Quotas have an effect particularly at FC level and are a consideration, but don't dictate the career of quality white players, it probably effects the inbetweeners much more.
Quotas have an effect particularly at FC level and are a consideration, but don't dictate the career of quality white players, it probably effects the inbetweeners much more.
Dendarii
International Debutant
That's a good point. The argument that Duminy and Bavuma should have been dropped because of poor performances is weakened by not applying the same standard to Rossouw - it would have been entirely reasonable to discard him after five ducks in his first ten innings.
Dendarii
International Debutant
On of the issues I have with the anti-quota brigade is that it usually gets presented as "Quotas are destroying South Africa cricket. Here's a ridiculous selection decision to back that up." when it's not as though other countries are immune to making dubious selections, and it's not as though the South Africa selections were entirely without merit. Even the oft-quoted Philander over Abbott wasn't the worst call that could have been made (that would have been Parnell instead of Abbott), as there was a case for Philander's selection even if it wasn't as strong as the case for Abbott.
In fact, I can't think of too many questionable selections as a result of quotas - Phehlukwayo playing a test against India does come to mind, but other than that there have been justifiable cricketing reasons for the selections. Yes, quotas may have played a role in things like Duminy's continued selection, but so did his domestic form and his being a senior player who has been part of the side in various forms for a long time.
I'm not a fan of quotas, but I realise that they're probably a necessary evil given the broader context. And while they might be making things awkward at domestic level, when it comes to the national side for the most part they've been handled in a sensible manner.
In fact, I can't think of too many questionable selections as a result of quotas - Phehlukwayo playing a test against India does come to mind, but other than that there have been justifiable cricketing reasons for the selections. Yes, quotas may have played a role in things like Duminy's continued selection, but so did his domestic form and his being a senior player who has been part of the side in various forms for a long time.
I'm not a fan of quotas, but I realise that they're probably a necessary evil given the broader context. And while they might be making things awkward at domestic level, when it comes to the national side for the most part they've been handled in a sensible manner.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Quota is affecting FC cricket rather significantly, which is a worry... also the fact that we are getting few quality 'black' batsmen coming through the pipeline (which would solve the entire quota issue). People do forget that the countries demographics is 80% 12% 8%, black, mixed race/coloured white.... which shows there is a problem but it is a failure of the government, the schooling system, and the lower end structures. But this is basically the truth for just about every aspect of life in SA.
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Marius
International Debutant
I met Errol Stewart when I was in Durban for the Aus Test match, and according to him Phehlukwayo only played because we had already won the series. He also said that no person will ever play for South Africa unless they deserve it.