Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[The Hutt Rec]

Was there a period in the game where you could shine the ball using sweat, but not saliva? Or am I imagining that?

 

[NZTailender]

Was there a period in the game where you could shine the ball using sweat, but not saliva? Or am I imagining that?

Feel like there was. Rub your forehead with your hand before rubbing the ball.

Assume saliva with sugar would be better as it lacquers. Can't imagine salt sweat would do anything other than ultimately dry the leather out

 

[social]

This is where it's always fallen under a grey area - i.e. introducing foreign objects versus 'natural resources' i.e. saliva - but the saliva has been influenced by the sugar, a foreign object. Where do you draw the line?

Personally, I have no problems with someone using mints or sweat to try and shine a ball. It's a much slower process, and can be undone by someone whacking the ball into the stands, and the shine being scuffed by hitting concrete, etc. The process takes overs and overs and overs to achieve, and even then it might not work.

On the other hand, roughing the ball up with a bottle top can have near immediate effects, as Chris Pringle found out - though ironically not in Australia's case with their makeshift sandpaper. Once the shine is dulled or gone, you can't really shine it back. Roughing is more permanent.

As I've mentioned earlier, I have done lots of things to a cricket ball that would be regarded as ball tampering nowadays on numerous occasions

IMO, you can break it down into 3 categories

1. Use of sunscreen, throwing ball into ground repeatedly, etc - umpires take care of it on ground

2. Mints, etc - definitely worthy of a sanction as it indicates premeditated intent

3. Bottle tops, sandpaper - whole different level as nobody in their right mind would do that ****

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Nominated ball-shiner would be Orlando (just runs a 'clean' business), while the dude orchestrating the dirty is Stringer or Avon.

So Bancroft would be Orlando and Warner Stringer - except Stringer was smart. Maybe he's Bird.

I'm thinking Lehmann is Avon, surely, while if Bancroft is Orlando that surely makes Smith into Wee-bay. It's a surpassingly effective analogy.

Plus String wasn't that smart as he wound up upsetting his own men, leading to his downfall. Hopefully CA will be bringing in Omar and Brother Mazoun in the next 24 hours

 

[Starfighter]

Do we all realise that perhaps this could all have been avoided if the Kookaburra Ball wasn't a useless piece of ****.

 

[NZTailender]

As I've mentioned earlier, I have done lots of things to a cricket ball that would be regarded as ball tampering nowadays on numerous occasions

IMO, you can break it down into 3 categories

1. Use of sunscreen, throwing ball into ground repeatedly, etc - umpires take care of it on ground

2. Mints, etc - definitely worthy of a sanction as it indicates premeditated intent

3. Bottle tops, sandpaper - whole different level as nobody in their right mind would do that ****

They all have pre-meditated intent. You want the ball to reverse, there's ways you can do it, so telling someone to throw the ball in on the bounce is pre-meditated.

I think as long as there's an element of chance to it, it's more acceptable. Again, mints aren't a guarantee - unless someone with an iron stomach starts sucking on actual varnish in mint form. Tools that incise on the ball are more likely to have an effect.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Do we all realise that perhaps this could all have been avoided if the Kookaburra Ball wasn't a useless piece of ****.

 

[Maximas]

Interesting that Lehman is set to continue.

CA is ultimately responsible for maintaining culture by the people they appoint and condone, Sutherland's handling of this has been poor, he should have been on the phone to Smith ASAP, or at least before that first statement before he went to SA. I'd argue that like Smith, he also failed to fully grasp the gravity of the situation in the beginning, I see the board as culpable in this mess to a degree, and a clean-out is required on that level too.

The outrage being expressed by cricket followers is also a lot of built-up frustration at how Australian cricketers conduct themselves in general on and off the field, these issues have been simmering away for much longer, and I have no doubt that it has even influenced the way other teams approach sledging and gamesmanship, particularly the Indian team, who seemed far less interested in such tactics even 10 years ago.

 

[social]

Was there a period in the game where you could shine the ball using sweat, but not saliva? Or am I imagining that?

You're imagining it but it wasn't as common as it is now due to the toxicity of fertilizers used on grounds

Anyway, Brylceem wasn't just a fashion statement, sunscreen not just for skin protection, etc.

Been going on forever

 

[cnerd123]

Do we all realise that perhaps this could all have been avoided if the Kookaburra Ball wasn't a useless piece of ****.

I wish I could like posts twice

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's one of those evolving things. Each time you clarify what's ok, someone pushes the boundaries with something else.

Seems like everyone has de-facto accepted shining via saliva (mints) and sweat (sunscreen) seems alright. Roughing via other means not so much. Zippers, sandpaper and bottle caps a no-no. Personally don't have any problems with throwing the ball in and letting it bounce first as it's leaving it more up to chance than directly scratching on the ball.

The ICC actually needs to sit down with players and bowlers alike, identify the most commonly used methods, draw a more defined circle around it, and shake hands.

You think professional sportsman aren’t able to thrown “flying saucers” that make sure one side of the ball hits the turf.

Some bowlers are even able to bowl in that manner to accelerate the roughing up of one side of the ball.

 

[Ausage]

Nominated ball-shiner would be Orlando (just runs a 'clean' business), while the dude orchestrating the dirty is Stringer or Avon.

So Bancroft would be Orlando and Warner Stringer - except Stringer was smart. Maybe he's Bird.

Warner's a Wee Bay imo. The loyal, loose cannon type but no more than a foot soldier. Snoop's a decent shout too.

First thought was Marlo but nowhere near intelligent enough.

 

[NZTailender]

You think professional sportsman aren’t able to thrown “flying saucers” that make sure one side of the ball hits the turf.

Some bowlers are even able to bowl in that manner to accelerate the roughing up of one side of the ball.

That's an impressive skill tbf. I'm more okay with that than a slight of hand skill to conceal somehting now allowed.

 

[NZTailender]

Warner's a Wee Bay imo. The loyal, loose cannon type but no more than a foot soldier. Snoop's a decent shout too.

First thought was Marlo but nowhere near intelligent enough.

Bird. Wee-bay wasn't really a loose-cannon. Calm and collected, intelligent. Bird the foot soldier who was a hot head, did drugs without the crew knowing, and dumb enough to keep his weapon on him.

Or maybe he's Little Man.

 

[Burgey]

That's an impressive skill tbf. I'm more okay with that than a slight of hand skill to conceal somehting now allowed.

That footage where McGrath was miked up and bowling to Warner in a T20 is pretty instructive as to how skilful these guys are at getting the ball to do exactly what they want it to.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Bird. Wee-bay wasn't really a loose-cannon. Calm and collected, intelligent. Bird the foot soldier who was a hot head, did drugs without the crew knowing, and dumb enough to keep his weapon on him.

Or maybe he's Little Man.

Maybe in the end Matt Renshaw is Stringer, if they'd just listened to him in the first place they could have gone legit by now.

All I know is for the time being it all finishes with Tim Paine as Slim Charles.

 

[NZTailender]

Maybe in the end Matt Renshaw is Stringer, if they'd just listened to him in the first place they could have gone legit by now.

All I know is for the time being it all finishes with Tim Paine as Slim Charles.

Haha.

Stringer ends up getting done so hopefully it isn't Renshaw.

 

[vic_orthdox]

One thing I'm surprised about is how many cricketers/ex-cricketers are saying that they can't believe that Lehmann didn't know.

I just can't see any circumstances in which the plan is announced blatantly enough for the coach to know about it. How can that not be interpreted as the coaches of their international sides knowing what "dark arts" their players were up to, and what they were doing each day?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wish I could like posts twice

Liking every post ever made on the site isn't enough for you?

 

[social]

One thing I'm surprised about is how many cricketers/ex-cricketers are saying that they can't believe that Lehmann didn't know.

I just can't see any circumstances in which the plan is announced blatantly enough for the coach to know about it. How can that not be interpreted as the coaches of their international sides knowing what "dark arts" their players were up to, and what they were doing each day?

No denying that they did it but there are lots of things that just dont add up for me

For example, WTF would you use a bright yellow piece of whatever?

Might as well have worn a neon sign on his head

Whole thing screams spur of the moment, half-baked thought bubble dreamed up by an idiot which probably points all fingers at Warner