Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[howardj]

Seems to me that CA are happy to close ranks and limit the damage to three people.

There's no explanation as to what Lehmann said on the radio to the guys out in the middle, and why he covered his mouth from the TV cameras.

And no explanation as to how a man who has presided over, nurtured and shaped the team's culture (Lehmann) can possibly go on in light of recent events, and in light of the fact that there's now a review into team culture.

 

[quincywagstaff]

What's with all Lehmann hate? Under him, Australia came close to almost wining the series in India. Yes it took years to get there but it was a vast improvement nonetheless and shouldn't be ignored when evaluating him as a coach.

Based on purely on-field results, he's been coasting on some early triumphs for some time now. Become a poor Test side away from home: lost two series in England, lost badly in neutral territory to Pakistan, embarrassed in Sri Lanka, only able to draw in Bangladesh, lost in India and now likely to be the first Oz side to lose in South Africa since 1970.

ODI results have tapered off a lot since the 2015 WC win with Australia particularly poor away from home. Last batch of T20s were the first good ones under his reign but that was led by Warner and he's pretty much done now.

To be sure he's had some impressive results (mainly at home) but in more ways than he's outstayed his welcome.

 

[social]

Watched The Back Page last night (Oz sports show aired on the same network that televises the cricket) and one of the panelists claimed that a Fox presenter asked Smith before the 3rd test why SA were able to get the ball to reverse so early in the 2nd test while Oz got nothing all match

Alleged response: "We all know how they did it"

Not condoning Australia's actions at all but, if true, not too far fetched to assume that they decided to get down in the gutter with them and the rest is history

Would be hilarious if Fox finds proof as could end up being 6 a side for the final test

 

[Tom Flint]

Bancroft could still have been the main guy to get towork on the ball. Doesn't mean he had to search it with sandpaper.
England used to throw it to bopara all the time too

 

[vic_orthdox]

“Get the ball to Banners boys, he’s in charge of shining today”.

There’s always someone in charge of it as you don’t want seven different hands on the ball. Or the chance that someone starts shining the wrong side.

 

[howardj]

What's with all Lehmann hate? Under him, Australia came close to almost wining the series in India. Yes it took years to get there but it was a vast improvement nonetheless and shouldn't be ignored when evaluating him as a coach.

Under Boof, our overseas performances have been very poor

 

[vic_orthdox]

Exactly. Every team has a bloke in charge, it’s not going to set off warning bells in the side by saying get the ball to him.

(@TomFlint)

 

[howardj]

Yes, I think it's widely known that there's one designated ball shiner in every team (and indeed guys who sweat profusely are asked to not touch the ball at all)

 

[Senile Sentry]

If Lehmann didn’t know then he’s not doing his job. If he did know then he should be stood down.

I think either way he should go. I don’t see how he could in any way engineer the sort of cultural change the team needs, because everything I’ve aeen, hear or read from him basically encapsulates the culture as it currently is.

I disagree. He is not overseeing a bunch of12 year olds but the national cricket team made up of at least technically grown up men. There is a limit to which he can inculcate behaviors in such a group. Especially when the group is of a floating kind. Add to it I the complication that he cannot be an authoritarian and repeat the mistake that his predecessor did. He has to deal with some oversized and brittle egos.

His lackadaisical approach could have resulted in Smith and Warner appropriating undue power within the ranks leading them to take decision without actively consulting him.

The underlying issue here is what the kids are getting taught while growing up. At the moment evidence suggests that win at any cost outweighs fair play. Without addressing that any amount of chop and change at the top is going to be perfunctory at best. Aussie cricket needs to take a hard look at itself and ask some tough questions regarding its core values and whether they are adhered to at all levels.

Mohammad Amir thought match fixing was acceptable or at least not as grave a mistake as it actually was based on the upbringing he had. That message is applicable to all.

 

[Adders]

Anyone else a member of the Cricket Australi familly (yeah yuck i know but priority access on Ashes tickets) and getting emails from Sutherland?

Ive had 3 so far apologising for this debacle.......Lehmanns name wasnt even mentioned in the one recieved this morning following the press release. If his head doesnt roll for the state of this Aussie side atm it will be a disgrace.

 

[howardj]

With suspensions likely to be announced tomorrow, I guess the next question is whether Smith, Warner, and Bancroft will accept them

They're entitled to a Code of Conduct hearing which must be presided over by an independent person

I can't see them just accepting a lengthy suspension (such as 12 months)

Six months maybe

 

[quincywagstaff]

Hard to see how Lehmann survives this even in the short-term any any time he does an interview the culture of the side and this specific incident will come up.

 

[howardj]

There's at least two sources (News and Fairfax) this morning reporting that the plan was hatched by Warner and Bancroft, and Smith agreed or at least didn't stop it

 

[Tom Flint]

Strangely England's 'ball shiner' ATM seems to be root. Which must make it hard to captain a fielding side but there you go

 

[NZTailender]

Watched The Back Page last night (Oz sports show aired on the same network that televises the cricket) and one of the panelists claimed that a Fox presenter asked Smith before the 3rd test why SA were able to get the ball to reverse so early in the 2nd test while Oz got nothing all match

Alleged response: "We all know how they did it"

Not condoning Australia's actions at all but, if true, not too far fetched to assume that they decided to get down in the gutter with them and the rest is history

Would be hilarious if Fox finds proof as could end up being 6 a side for the final test

Would be surprised if SA have moved from something that's worked and is looked on more favorably (ball shining via mints etc), to something entirely more dubious.

From all the aspersions cast at other teams tampering with the ball - they seem more concerned with keeping it shiny rather than roughing it up.

 

[NZTailender]

There's at least two sources (News and Fairfax) this morning reporting that the plan was hatched by Warner and Bancroft, and Smith agreed or at least didn't stop it

one wonders if Smith's admission of guilt was four dimensional chess designed to rid the team of Warner.

Bloke is tolerated in the side by the sounds, but hard to get rid of him because ratings and money. His career could be potentially over, Smith's isn't - even if he does lose the captaincy.

Lose the battle, win the war.

Though where that falls down is they're apparently good mates, so

 

[Burgey]

If that’s the case it still demonstrates he’s not the right bloke to be captain.

 

[howardj]

Interestingly Sutherland basically said that it will be up to the BCCI and the two franchises as to whether Smith and Warner can play IPL

CA will not be withdrawing the approval (I think it's called a No Objection Certificate) already given for them to play IPL

 

[Starfighter]

Watched The Back Page last night (Oz sports show aired on the same network that televises the cricket) and one of the panelists claimed that a Fox presenter asked Smith before the 3rd test why SA were able to get the ball to reverse so early in the 2nd test while Oz got nothing all match

Alleged response: "We all know how they did it"

Not condoning Australia's actions at all but, if true, not too far fetched to assume that they decided to get down in the gutter with them and the rest is history

Would be hilarious if Fox finds proof as could end up being 6 a side for the final test

I did find it extremely disingenuous of de Villiers to claim that Australia getting the ball to reverse early was suspicious yet not casting aspersions on his own team when exactly the same thing was happening. Makes me think that there was some national-biased thinking behind it. He's hardly a neutral.

 

[howardj]

I actually think Smith will be welcomed back by most of the cricketing public (as distinct from the wider public who think that ball tampering is a form of mass murder) and certainly the team

Warner however I don't think is perceived as a contrite or remorseful kind of guy, so will find the way back harder - from a selection, team, and public perspective