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Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
I don't expect the Venn diagram of IPL fans and cricket fans to have a big intersection.
This myth needs busting. In my reasonably sized sample of social circle there are many who are both into tests and IPL (despite me trying to talk them out of IPL). The dissonance between test and useless t20 leagues exists in minds of CWers but not common followers of cricket in India.
 

Borges

International Regular
> I understand why the team gets more flak, but I don't think it's right to extend that criticism to the ideal

I think that the criticism is mainly because there has been incessant moralising and preaching, without there being any ideal to back it up.
 

cnerd123

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Yeah, that's sort of what I was getting at. I understand why the team gets more flak, but I don't think it's right to extend that criticism to the ideal.

The reason I asked that question about other nations is because actually eradicating this kind of stuff requires leadership. A huge ban from CA sets a precedent. If the same occurs when an Indian cricketer does the same thing it reinforces the message and doesn't give the next Australian cricketer who contemplates it a rationalisation (well its fine for them!) to do something that would be to his benefit.
I do admire that CA and the fans are actually trying to preserve this idea of 'Australian Sportsmanship' by handing out severe punishments when presented with strong evidence of actions against it.

But personally. I think it's a dumb ideal to begin with. This is Elite Sport. The players are going to push the rules. It's natural. To have this standard that the players are supposed to uphold whilst they are also supposed to, simultaneously, be doing everything they can to win creates all this grey area of what is acceptable conduct and what isn't. It's trying to balance two conflicting ideals. You cannot be doing everything you can to win unless you are also bending the rules. You want your elite sportsmen to not walk, to sneakily tamper the ball, to take every little advantage they can get. You want to see that hunger in them to win. You cannot be a Steve Waugh and also be a goody goody two shoes. It just doesn't work.

In trying to balance these two conflicting ideals, they end up making hypocrites of themselves. And that's what I don't like. I don't mind nasty. I mind hypocrisy.

To me, the ideal way to deal with this situation would be abandoning the myth of "Australian Sportsmanship" altogether. Shatter whatever image and perceptions you have created, and just own the identity of being a nasty cricket team who will take whatever advantage they can get and is willing to play dirty to win. Like, realistically I don't know how they can do this - with all the brand image that has been created, and the code of conduct, and the sponsors, and all that stuff. Realistically they have backed themselves into a corner where they have to do what they are doing now, and double down on this Myth and now work to make it a reality.

This isn't the problem of other cricket nations. No other nation has attempted to cultivate this myth. Maybe England, but that's it. The subcontinent is fine playing nasty cricket, and if anything we seem to increasingly be encouraging it. SA have always been gracious off the field and ruthless on it. Kiwis are just naturally nice, they aren't falsifying it. The West Indians mankaded their way to a U-19 WC win not so long ago, invented their own dances to celebrate wickets, and since the 70s have been an aggressive and intimidating bunch. None of them have tried to foster this double-identity. None of them have this mantra of 'Hard but Fair'. It's just Australia. And so I don't think we should look to other countries to follow Australia's lead on how to deal with cheats.

Australia backed themselves into this corner, they can get themselves out of it.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's just Australia.
Frankly I'm not even sure it goes that far. The only teams I've ever seen who've thought of this ideal are my own (much to my annoyance). It almost seems to be something that non-players hold in higher regard than players.
 

Borges

International Regular
> I do admire that CA and the fans are actually trying to preserve this idea of 'Australian Sportsmanship'

I don't. Its pathetic that they had kept up this self-delusional pretense for so long.
Its even more pathetic that they now want to try and do everything possible to help them keep up this pretense for even longer.
 

Burgey

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I love the fact that CA looks like coming down harder on its players than the fame’s Governing body any other country is somehow another reason that they aren’t upholding an ideal of sportsmanship.
 

cnerd123

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I love the fact that CA looks like coming down harder on its players than the fame’s Governing body any other country is somehow another reason that they aren’t upholding an ideal of sportsmanship.
no one has said that tho

nvm read Borges' post again
 

TheJediBrah

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Any serious attempt to curtail throwing the ball into the ground to scuff it up is just stupid and pointless. What are you going to do, ban all bounce throws? Fine a player if they can't make the distance or accidentally bounces the ball before the keeper?

Or just keep doing what some umpires do now and randomly decide "ok you've thrown the ball into ground a bit now that's enough"
 

OverratedSanity

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Lehmann deserves what he gets 100%... absolute **** of a human being.

Year long ban would be utterly ridiculous for Smith and Warner though, hope it doesn't happen.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Political parties have literally prepared actual talking points because they know they'll be asked about it.

Please can we just make it stop
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
This is actually kind of annoying because it implies that no one else tries to do it. That's just wrong. Australia took it a step to far this time and their actions were stupid in both their hypocrisy and execution. But lets not pretend teams havent been doing it for years. The reaction from former players is just ****ed. What kind of short term memory do they have?

Ball tampering should be legal (to an extent) anyway
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Lehmann deserves what he gets 100%... absolute **** of a human being.

Year long ban would be utterly ridiculous for Smith and Warner though, hope it doesn't happen.
Yeah completely agree. Lehmann should be sacked and neither Smith nor Warner should be considered for any sort of captaincy role ever again, but they shouldn't be banned.
 

Kirkut

International Regular
I've also come across a video where Bancroft stuffs sugar in his pocket in the previous Ashes, he has a sweet tooth like Trescothick.
 

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