Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[howardj]

I'm hearing 12 month bans for the players, and Boof to resign

My understanding is that CA can’t unilaterally ban the players for 12 months

Rather, there has to be a Code of Conduct hearing presided over by an independent commissioner (presumably a retired judge)

My guess is that they will be charged with ‘bringing the game in disrepute’ which carries a maximum lifetime ban

However, it certainly won’t get to that. The players will argue that:

- Ball tampering is only a Level 2 offence (Level 4 being the worst)
- They have no prior offences in this area
- They confessed straight away

Lehmann is not covered by the Collective Bargaining Agreement however and could therefore presumably be sacked on the spot

 

[cnerd123]

I take it you haven't done much shining of the cricket ball in your time. Sugar is great, creates a varnish like effect and doesn't soften the leather up as much as ordinary saliva.

this is useful information...

It is tampering. Tampering doesn't have to be scruffing the ball. If we draw the line at foreign objects, mints are dire, like sandpaper.

ok

 

[social]

Also no evidence that mints actually help the ball reverse swing. It's more of an urban legend than it is a concrete, proven way to tamper the ball. The benefit gained by using sugary saliva must be minimal. The benefit gained by actively roughing up the ball is far, far clearer.

There's infinitely more evidence that mints help shine the ball than there is of putting a bit of dirt on sticky tape

The latter obviously didnt work as the umpires didnt see fit to change the ball as its' condition hadnt changed

 

[Starfighter]

this is useful information...

I do also know that while sun-protective lip balm is useful not only for stopping your lips burning (which sucks) but provides a useful secondary function. There's a reason why I'm better than anyone else in my team at shining the ball.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Yea really it's nothing to do with Aussie 'culture', it's just these particular players who acted like sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, double standard dicks that got caught and we're all relishing it.

It's really Warner and Lehmann who are much reflective of this than Smith imo. As someone said on Twitter, Warner is the avatar of this team and once he decided to become the old attack dog and the start of this season's Ashes, it was likely it would end in the mess it has.

The amount of double-standards Warner and Lehmann have displayed on this tour has been staggering; Warner's pompous comments about ball-tampering after the Faf sanction in 2016 in light of him apparently being the instigator of this just the latest example.

Warner probably would've been made captain post-Clarke had it not been for his past indiscretions and in many ways he felt like the spiritual leader of the team; you only had to see how Australia performed under him at T20/ODI level to see that he took to it much more naturally than Smith.

Smith came across as rather weak and feckless and I suspect Lehmann liked that because it gave him more power in the dressing room (recall how Lehmann regularly clashed with a much more assertive leader in Clarke).

 

[Burgey]

We won't be as hard on our cheats because we don't profess to be morale leaders of world cricket.

We don't try to uphold a false image of our cricketing cultures.

You won’t be as hard on your cheats because there’d be no one left

 

[Bolo]

I will be interested to see what happens if someone tries a similar stunt against Australia in the future. Could lead to a massive furore especially if CA go hard on the culprits.

No one is going to be dumb enough to attempt anything like this anytime in the near future against anyone. Pretty sure nobody will attempt anything of RSA style magnitude against AUS (and probably anyone else) for a long time, cos the holier than thou ton of bricks are going to be pretty weighty after CA shreds their own players and any other board refuses to (which would be their inclination). Hopefully ball tampering will just go back to what it should be after this- surreptitious and impossible to prove definitively

 

[Ausage]

There really isn't. None of us have gone "well OUR team would never cheat". If anything we've all said that every team does this, it's just that Australia got caught.

It's also ultimately why in cases like Faf or Afridi their respective boards didn't come down so hard. Because those teams weren't trying to preach to the world or their fans what good sportstmanship was. They didn't need to take a hard stance and make an example out of a player who was tampering the ball. CA has to because they backed themselves into this corner with all their past actions. They are now forced to walk the walk, and credit to them they are. But in doing so they're making a massive overreaction, and it's hilarious to the rest of us.

I genuinely don't think you'll see such a strong reaction if any other team gets caught doing the same.

Of course there is. You mean to tell me the "our cricket cultures aren't preachy" stuff isn't a form of "we're better than Aus in this regard"? I don't think that's an indefensible position but you're kidding yourself if you think it's not more than a bit sanctimonious.

 

[howardj]

Marsh boys won't object to JL's appointment, I wouldn't have thought

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hmm...

lmao

 

[Burgey]

Hmm...

Smit is SA’s McCullum. All swash and no buckle

 

[Daemon]

If Steve Smith comes back after a year as a lesser batsman, we'll never know whether it was because his slump had started post Ashes or whether it was the ban that affected his batting.

Also when we lose to a Smith and Warner-less Australia, it's going to be extremely humiliating. If we don't win that series we'll never win in Australia.

 

[cnerd123]

Of course there is. You mean to tell me the "our cricket cultures aren't preachy" stuff isn't a form of "we're better than Aus in this regard"? I don't think that's an indefensible position but you're kidding yourself if you think it's not more than a bit sanctimonious.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Preaching that we don't preach. My rejection of ideology is an ideology.

Guess it depends on how you define 'better'. It's definitely the reason why we're kicking the boot in now, and probably is also why it won't be as fun if any other nation did it. IDK if that makes other nations 'better' though. Like, I don't think you can say it's superior that other nations have no moral compass guiding their cricket vs. having one that they are hypocritical about.

 

[Pratters]

I cringe so much when I look back at the Tendulkar ball tampering episode now.

On the third day Tendulkar had bowled four overs of gentle medium pace but had almost immediately started swinging the ball more than any other bowler. The local TV producer instructed cameramen to zoom in on Tendulkar's hands, ostensibly to check what grip he was using. Instead, on two occasions he was spotted working on the seam of the ball with the thumb and forefinger of his left hand. The commentators went into overdrive and close-up replays were shown ad nauseam.

In his eyrie Denness saw this and asked to be sent a copy of the recording. What he saw left him in no doubt something untoward had occurred. But lost in the maelstrom that followed was the fact that Tendulkar stood accused of not informing the umpires he was cleaning the ball under Law 42.3 (b), rather than tampering with it.

On the fourth day Denness informed India he would be banning Tendulkar for one match, suspended for a year, for his actions. Ganguly was to be given a similar suspended punishment for not controlling his team - Wisden noted that considering he had been suspended and/or fined three times in the previous 12 months "he was fortunate to get away with only a suspended ban for not upholding the spirit of the game".

The Denness affair - When Tendulkar was accused of ball tampering | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

Yes, Tendulkar didn't use a foreign object but surely it isn't okay to pick the seam? No one in Australia is at least going 'oh Smith is a god, he can't cheat, etc'.

 

[Burgey]

Pratters gets it. No doubt Tendulkar was reappointed to the captaincy a short while later. An accurate representation of Indian cricket.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I cringe so much when I look back at the Tendulkar ball tampering episode now.

On the third day Tendulkar had bowled four overs of gentle medium pace but had almost immediately started swinging the ball more than any other bowler. The local TV producer instructed cameramen to zoom in on Tendulkar's hands, ostensibly to check what grip he was using. Instead, on two occasions he was spotted working on the seam of the ball with the thumb and forefinger of his left hand. The commentators went into overdrive and close-up replays were shown ad nauseam.

In his eyrie Denness saw this and asked to be sent a copy of the recording. What he saw left him in no doubt something untoward had occurred. But lost in the maelstrom that followed was the fact that Tendulkar stood accused of not informing the umpires he was cleaning the ball under Law 42.3 (b), rather than tampering with it.

On the fourth day Denness informed India he would be banning Tendulkar for one match, suspended for a year, for his actions. Ganguly was to be given a similar suspended punishment for not controlling his team - Wisden noted that considering he had been suspended and/or fined three times in the previous 12 months "he was fortunate to get away with only a suspended ban for not upholding the spirit of the game".

The Denness affair - When Tendulkar was accused of ball tampering | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

Yes, Tendulkar didn't use a foreign object but surely it isn't okay to pick the seam? No one in Australia is at least going 'oh Smith is a god, he can't cheat, etc'.

Australian cricket's shame should never detract from how pathetic Indian fans and general Indian sheepdom truly are/is.

 

[MagicPoopShovel]

Pratters gets it. No doubt Tendulkar was reappointed to the captaincy a short while later. An accurate representation of Indian cricket.

As Gideon H would put it - classic "Hero Tolerance"
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...d/news-story/faa28321f8287d76e6cae4df3ccd6130

 

[cnerd123]

Oh yea, absolutely no doubt you could be an Indian cricket superstar and literally get away with murdering someone on the cricket pitch.

We've never tried to preach otherwise tho

 

[Ausage]

That's an interesting way to look at it. Preaching that we don't preach. My rejection of ideology is an ideology.

Guess it depends on how you define 'better'. It's definitely the reason why we're kicking the boot in now, and probably is also why it won't be as fun if any other nation did it. IDK if that makes other nations 'better' though. Like, I don't think you can say it's superior that other nations have no moral compass guiding their cricket vs. having one that they are hypocritical about.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was getting at. I understand why the team gets more flak, but I don't think it's right to extend that criticism to the ideal.

The reason I asked that question about other nations is because actually eradicating this kind of stuff requires leadership. A huge ban from CA sets a precedent. If the same occurs when an Indian cricketer does the same thing it reinforces the message and doesn't give the next Australian cricketer who contemplates it a rationalisation (well its fine for them!) to do something that would be to his benefit.

 

[silentstriker]

Of course there is. You mean to tell me the "our cricket cultures aren't preachy" stuff isn't a form of "we're better than Aus in this regard"? I don't think that's an indefensible position but you're kidding yourself if you think it's not more than a bit sanctimonious.

It's like this: if you're pro choice and you ask the lady you're having an affair with to get an abortion, it's distasteful if it comes out. If you're rabidly calling anyone who is pro choice a baby killer and it turns out you are also doing the same....we get to be merciless.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheCrick...44015.ampproject.net/1521658019509/frame.html

That's a video of David Warner on Faf's ball tampering.

You bring it on yourself.