***Official*** Australia in South Africa 2018

[SeamUp]

I don't believe he was a bad captain or particularly abrasive in his later years. I believe that on balance, over the course of the captaincy he was both.

I'm not going to believe the testimony of his teammates or coach in singing his praises, when he emphatically killed the careers of both of these early in his career for doing otherwise.

Edit to your edit:

Fair enough. May not have actually made him worse. Just one of those things that made me dislike him that leads to rational debate being difficult.

Killed the careers ?

His years as a leader of SA were years I certainly wouldn't take back. He was one of a kind. Maybe you should read this to get a real life feel of the circumstances that made Smith who he was and why he was selected to be captain.in the first place. Its called ambition and self belief. Often the best have it.

The boy giant who stood up to legends | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

 

[Bolo]

Killed the careers ?

His years as a leader of SA were years I certainly wouldn't take back. He was one of a kind. Maybe you should read this to get a real life feel of the circumstances that made Smith who he was and why he was selected to be captain.in the first place. Its called ambition and self belief. Often the best have it.

The boy giant who stood up to legends | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

Jennings and Klusener. Just the two I can think of offhand who the media reported as being excluded from the national setup due to personality clashes with Smith. How many more were reported on that I've forgotten or how many were never reported on, I'm not sure.

That article is fair. It accounts for why both of us have strong opinions on him. It accounts for circumstances and challenges, and explains his style, but it doesn't really go into the quality of captaincy, and focuses more on his achievements as a bat. If I was writing a retirement article on him, I'd probably try to write something similar.

 

[SeamUp]

Jennings and Klusener. Just the two I can think of offhand who the media reported as being excluded from the national setup due to personality clashes with Smith. How many more were reported on that I've forgotten or how many were never reported on, I'm not sure.

That article is fair. It accounts for why both of us have strong opinions on him. It accounts for circumstances and challenges, and explains his style, but it doesn't really go into the quality of captaincy, and focuses more on his achievements as a bat. If I was writing a retirement article on him, I'd probably try to write something similar.

You are very quick to knock him aren't you ?

Those decisions were made for what he felt was best for the SA team.

Then your ignorance about Ray Jennings style of coaching. It was never going to work. Give me the world class opener and leader then get a coach capable of bouncing ideas around him. And I like Ray but his style was authoritarian which was more suited to SA u19s.

Nah, not really. That focuses on his playing and his captaincy. The fact that he got to captain WP so young and got his troops to beat SA to prove a points just knocks your points on not being able to get a lesser team to win which is ludicrous in itself. It also refers plenty to his captaincy style 1) Being strong but fair 2) Supporting a struggling player 3 ) presence and x-factor he had.

The playing probably only stands out to you because you don't want to believe he was a good captain no matter what is put forward to you but also highlights how good he was to perform to the levels he did.

 

[cnerd123]

The problem with win-loss ratio as a metric of captaincy ability is that you're holding 1 man accountable for the performance of 11. Smith doesn't build a team he has to make do with what talent the country has and who the selectors and coaches want to play.

On top of that, SA under Smith was very good at winning series, if not individual games. Draws are not a negative result. You need context.

 

[Prince EWS]

The problem with win-loss ratio as a metric of captaincy ability is that you're holding 1 man accountable for the performance of 11. Smith doesn't build a team he has to make do with what talent the country has and who the selectors and coaches want to play.

"Your inability to stop us from sucking is a failure of leadership."

vcs to confirm.

 

[cnerd123]

"Your inability to stop us from sucking is a failure of leadership."

vcs to confirm.

This is a silicon valley reference isn't it

 

[Prince EWS]

This is a silicon valley reference isn't it

Yes, from an episode that first aired less than 24 hours ago. Hot off the meme presses.

 

[GotSpin]

Yes, I think it was because it was a fringe player Smith felt bad about him taking the fall

So confessed it was a group idea which was work-shopped (heck probably the lolly incidents by other teams are too) which is what has generated the outrage

This didn't happen as far as I know. Was his idea

 

[Spark]

damnit can we talk about one smith at a time here

 

[cnerd123]

damnit can we talk about one smith at a time here

You know why Smith is a better captain than Smith? Because you know his players would be willing to cross the line for him. That's actually a sign of a true leader. Don't think anyone under Smith's leadership would do the same.

 

[Starfighter]

 

[Adders]

***** on ****ing fire the last few days

 

[SeamUp]

SA go to Australia next summer for a batch of ODIs and T20s. Could be interesting.

Just hope there has been no long term damage to what is always a highly contested and high quality series.

 

[Spark]

SA go to Australia next summer for a batch of ODIs and T20s. Could be interesting.

Just hope there has been no long term damage to what is always a highly contested and high quality series.

Damage? If anything this makes future series down the lines amazingly juicy. Can you imagine how much crowd interest there'll be in the next tour of SA?

 

[Daemon]

Yes, from an episode that first aired less than 24 hours ago. Hot off the meme presses.

omg it's back? couchtuner here i come

 

[SeamUp]

Damage? If anything this makes future series down the lines amazingly juicy. Can you imagine how much crowd interest there'll be in the next tour of SA?

Guess I'm thinking of animosity between boards and players. Blaming each other for their own behaviour. If this is the case I do hope things can be sorted in SA quickly if need be so we can think about the carry over being juicy rather than a dislike for one another.

Do you think we will go back to 3-test series ? That will be probably more scheduling than anything else though.

 

[Spark]

Guess I'm thinking of animosity between boards and players. Blaming each other for their own behaviour. If this is the case I do hope things can be sorted in SA quickly if need be so we can think about the carry over being juicy rather than a dislike hormone another.

Do you think we will go back to 3-test series ? That will be probably more scheduling than anything else though.

Oh I mean longer term, like in 4-5 years or whenever the next tour is scheduled. Short term I kind of expect to lose most games we play against SA in any format for a while, simply because of the attendant psychological effects this will have on both sides (and the fact that SA are a very good side whose prophesied decline has been greatly exaggerated)

 

[vcs]

Yes, from an episode that first aired less than 24 hours ago. Hot off the meme presses.

omg it's back? couchtuner here i come

Season 4 was kind of dire TBH, I was catching up with it over this last weekend. I don't like most of the characters any more, so not sure I'll bother watching it any further.

 

[SeamUp]

Adam Collins
‏Verified account
@collinsadam
Breaking: Matt Renshaw added to the squad for the Joburg Test. #SAvAUS


Seems odd to add to the squad one by one.

 

[Starfighter]

They want to increase the anticipation.



Or they're making it up on the fly.