Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[Spark]

Yeah the pay war wasn't about the pay of guys like Smith, Warner etc. It was about revenue-sharing ensuring funding for state level and women's cricket etc. Unsurprising that Dorries would attack the latter for spurious reasons though.

 

[Flem274*]

Nobody was ever caught for that to my knowledge?

crowe and pringle admitted to it after a game. the story goes they finally intercepted an old ball before a ball boy could get to it first during a test match in pakistan and it looked like it had spent some time in cameron bancrofts crotch so they experimented in the nets between tests then used bottle caps during the next test.

they got away free of charge because of the whole perceived new zealand fair play thing that was more prevalent in the early 90s than now.

 

[Bolo]

I mean, Imran wasn't caught, he just admitted it years later. Not sure we should lionise successfully getting away with it here.

Because Harsh's post is asking why we are making a big deal of it. Something admitted to years later is not exactly news, nor is sanction possible of a player who has already retired.

 

[SeamUp]

I admit I didn't know the ins and outs of the pay war but did the players themselves still benefit ?

You guys will know Dorries more than me so he probably was coming in off his full run.

 

[Top_Cat]

Gawd, the article is just so bad too, one of those every sentence on a separate line ones like they’re all profound learnings for the rest of us.

 

[Spark]

I admit I didn't know the ins and outs of the pay war but did the players themselves still benefit ?

You guys will know Dorries more than me so he probably was coming in off his full run.

Obviously they benefited, but they would have benefited either way because, bluntly, CA more or less tried to buy them off by offering them huge contracts in exchange for scrapping revenue sharing.

But yeah, Dorries has form as a complete ****. One of the worst journalists going around Aus cricket circles (which is a feat).

 

[Borges]

> Just saw on fox news that Smith's IPL franchise is about to sack him lol

This is deliciously ironic; it would appear that Smith's IPL franchise is one of the two crook franchises that are just back after serving a two year suspension for cheating of a much worse kind.


> The real tragedy is that we may never see his lightsaber moves ever again.

Stripping him of the captaincy (and keeping him far away from the 'leadership group') is clearly warranted; but there is no real cause for banning him for any protracted period of time.

Ball tampering or no ball tampering, Smith as a batsman is a contemporary great; still the best of his generation by a fair margin. Don't think that some one who has the audacity to orchestrate blatant cheating would be psychologically so badly shattered at being caught out that the batting would fall apart instantly. It's quite possible that the knowledge that he would forever be remembered as a captain that made his country an object of ridicule might just make him more determined than ever, to prove himself as a batsman.

 

[michaelm]

Nowhere near the level of delusion of Clarke saying he would make a comeback.

Well - maybe not so far off the mark...there'll be a few positions vacant.

 

[Gob]

Camera-on-Bancroft lol

 

[Black_Warrior]

Yeah the pay war wasn't about the pay of guys like Smith, Warner etc. It was about revenue-sharing ensuring funding for state level and women's cricket etc. Unsurprising that Dorries would attack the latter for spurious reasons though.

Also unsurprising given CA used everything within their PR capacity to make it seem like greedy, privileged cricketers wanting more. That's how a large proportion of people saw the dispute in 2017.

 

[Bolo]

crowe and pringle admitted to it after a game. the story goes they finally intercepted an old ball before a ball boy could get to it first during a test match in pakistan and it looked like it had spent some time in cameron bancrofts crotch so they experimented in the nets between tests then used bottle caps during the next test.

they got away free of charge because of the whole perceived new zealand fair play thing that was more prevalent in the early 90s than now.

Emphasis on caught with this incident in mind- this was an admission. Ball tampering is illegal under the rules as stated by trying to gain an unfair advantage. Correctly or incorrectly, they did not see what they were doing as cheating, merely levelling the playing field. The fact that they came forward of their own accord rather than being caught is evidence of this. Their behaviour may have been misguided, but it wasn't entirely unprincipled- why not just accept the result instead of drawing attention to your actions if you are simply trying to cheat?

 

[Saint Kopite]

More than the ball-tampering, which is bad, I am more mad at the fact that a young kid has been fed to the wolves by Australia's management. So ****ing poor!

Gotta feel for Bancroft!

 

[flibbertyjibber]

It is clear what punishment should be for this outrage, Australia must be banned immediately








from the Eurovision Song Contest

 

[StephenZA]

It is clear what punishment should be for this outrage, Australia must be banned immediately








from the Eurovision Song Contest

Aus winning is the closest the British will ever get to winning it again.....

 

[Spark]

Emphasis on caught with this incident in mind- this was an admission. Ball tampering is illegal under the rules as stated by trying to gain an unfair advantage. Correctly or incorrectly, they did not see what they were doing as cheating, merely levelling the playing field. The fact that they came forward of their own accord rather than being caught is evidence of this. Their behaviour may have been misguided, but it wasn't entirely unprincipled- why not just accept the result instead of drawing attention to your actions if you are simply trying to cheat?

Hold on, how does this work? "We did the same thing as obvious cheating, but we rationalised to ourselves that it wasn't cheating, so therefore it's less bad"?

 

[Bolo]

Australia were trying to gain an unfair advantage which is cheating in the ICC rulebook, and they knew it.

New Zealand did not see what they were doing as trying to gain an unfair advantage, so they were not trying to cheat. It may have still been reasonable to classify it as cheating, but it wasn't an attempt to gain unfair advantage.

Why sully the estimation of your own performance unless you are doing so on a matter of principle? If you act in accordance with principles, the tampering might still be wrong, but it is certainly better than this instance.

 

[Black_Warrior]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...d-against-faf-du-plessis-20161122-gsupvm.html

 

[Spark]

Australia were trying to gain an unfair advantage which is cheating in the ICC rulebook, and they knew it.

New Zealand did not see what they were doing as trying to gain an unfair advantage, so they were not trying to cheat. It may have still been reasonable to classify it as cheating, but it wasn't an attempt to gain unfair advantage.

Why sully the estimation of your own performance unless you are doing so on a matter of principle? If you act in accordance with principles, the tampering might still be wrong, but it is certainly better than this instance.

This is a surefire way to make sure the future response to any incident of this kind is just relentless denial, if "intent" is the critical thing and not the actual act.

 

[TheJediBrah]

First Candice Warner ridiculed for her ball-tampering and now the whole Australian team. Sad.

 

[StephenZA]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...d-against-faf-du-plessis-20161122-gsupvm.html

.

"I know from an Australian cricket perspective we hold our heads high. I'd be very disappointed if one of our team members did that and how they were reacting," Warner said.