Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[Gob]

Absolute ****ing disgrace

All involved in this deserves a lengthy ban

 

[fredfertang]

Johnny Blue Tit Today Doulgas

Something like that - beat the Australian folk hero Snowy Baker in the final of the Olympic middleweight bout in 1908 - Baker put it about that Douglas' father refereed the fight - and they call us whingers!

 

[mohammad16]

Some "hot take" thoughts:

1. No-one is innocent. Check your own team's record before piling in. If you're a Pakistan fan feeling this somehow vindicates you, it doesn't - don't make me post video of various of your players digging their nails into the ball in 1992. And by the same token, I'm well aware of Atherton cheating in 1994.

2. Still, deeply disappointed in Australia. Their record in this particular context has been relatively good before now. A history of very poor behaviour in some regards, obviously, but I've hardly ever taken them for cheats. And this was plain, premeditated cheating.

3. I suspect we are, as yet, nowhere near knowing where personal responsibility lies for this. I do give some credit to both Bancroft and Smith for fronting up at the press conference. But I wondered if it was significant when Smith asked Bancroft to answer the first question. But if Smith was aware in advance of the plan, and approved it, as he says, then he must face serious consequences. As must others others in the so-called "leadership team" - presumably including dear old Dave Warner - who approved the plan. I feel they bear more responsibility than Bancroft as the junior member of the team.

4. As for Lehmann, I really don't like the look of the video evidence which appears to incriminate him. Seems that when the balloon went up, he told 12th man Handscomb to get a message out to Bancroft - to which Bancroft responded by hiding the yellow tape in his trousers. That of course doesn't suggest DL knew of the plan in advance, but does suggest he was instrumental in the dishonest cover-up.

Any or all of the above might prove hopelessly misinformed or misguided as the evidence emerges. We shall see. But I would remind everyone in particular of point 1. What this sordid little tale reminds us is that no-one is innocent.

LOL more deflection. This was blatant and it is the most recent incident. I am sorry but the hammer should come down hard on these cheating Australian players. All Smith ever does is talk about the spirit of the game. It is true other countries have tampered with the ball, but the more times teams are exposed, the worse it becomes for the latest team to repeat the behaviour.

lol 'leadership' group. They should have a full on investigation and they must disclose everyone who was involved, or lose their place in the team.

 

[zaremba]

On a serious note I don't think anything this flagrant is widespread at all, lip gloss or dirt maybe but this is another level.

Hmm

Atherton - dirt in the pocket
Pakistan 1992 - digging nails into the ball
Sussex (oh! the mortification) - Imran and his bottle tops
NZ - Chris Pringle and his bottle tops (according to Adam Parore)

I could go on and on.

The fact is, this is widespread and we are kidding ourselves to pretend it isn't. But it is also cheating, plain and simple . It's underhand and dishonest. There is no excuse. It should lead to bans. I can't see how Smith can hold on to his role after admitting that he sanctioned this.

 

[zaremba]

LOL more deflection. This was blatant and it is the most recent incident. I am sorry but the hammer should come down hard on these cheating Australian players. All Smith ever does is talk about the spirit of the game. It is true other countries have tampered with the ball, but the more times teams are exposed, the worse it becomes for the latest team to repeat the behaviour..

Why are you talking about "deflection"? I am far from being an Australian supporter...

 

[fredfertang]

Why are you talking about "deflection"? I am far from being an Australian supporter...

Too much looking at the wider picture for some it would seem

 

[IKWT]

You're quite right. Poorly expressed by me. I don't mean at a personal level, but at a national level. I mean that no team or nation can confidently regard themselves as above all this.

That makes sense.

 

[Stefan9]

You're quite right. Poorly expressed by me. I don't mean at a personal level, but at a national level. I mean that no team or nation can confidently regard themselves as above all this.

Other nations don't repeat "we play the game hard but fair" to justify their deplorable behaviour nor do they try to claim the moral high ground by reffering to the delusional "line" gambit.

 

[zaremba]

Other nations don't repeat "we play the game hard but fair" to justify their deplorable behaviour nor do they try to claim the moral high ground by reffering to the delusional "line" gambit.

Yep. Their hypocrisy is part of the problem.

 

[the big bambino]

Personally I can’t see how you could have taken it any differently. I’ve just woken to this. Will have to read about it. If true then players should do time. Ball tampering is the worst form of cheating and I’d be upset that the coach and captain would be complicit when our record has been good in this regard.

 

[the big bambino]

Other nations don't repeat "we play the game hard but fair" to justify their deplorable behaviour nor do they try to claim the moral high ground by reffering to the delusional "line" gambit.

Careful. You guys cheat and your fans behaviour is toilet. But some how that’s ok bcos reasons. Don’t fall over your own hypocrisy running too hard to condemn others.

 

[zaremba]

Big B, I think it's fair for anyone to call out the Aussie players on their hypocrisy. For a long time they've maintained a "we play hard but fair, let's respect the Spirit of the Game" line which has had a degree of sanctimoniousness about it. FWIW I've never thought their take on "hard" is in itself particularly fair. Sledging - trying to put an opposing player off - is their stock-in-trade, and in my view is not really in the spirit of the game. What this incident illustrates that they aren't above the sneakier version of unfairness either.

But with all that said, I agree that no team (mine included) has an unblemished record.

 

[Stefan9]

Careful. You guys cheat and your fans behaviour is toilet. But some how that’s ok bcos reasons. Don’t fall over your own hypocrisy running too hard to condemn others.

Pot calling the kettle black.

Aus behaviour is as bad if not worse. Way more incidents of poorly behaved Aussie fans then SA fans.

We may have overstepped the line but never as blatantly as this and we never tried to cover it up. Here we have Lehman/maddison & Smith trying to cover it up. Similar to how your board covered up Warne & waugh's bookie transgression...

 

[Flem274*]

Personally I can’t see how you could have taken it any differently. I’ve just woken to this. Will have to read about it. If true then players should do time. Ball tampering is the worst form of cheating and I’d be upset that the coach and captain would be complicit when our record has been good in this regard.

hmm i think ball tampering is miles better than fixing. at least they're trying to win.

 

[Red]

I say this as an Australian, this is a disgrace. Blatant cheating and disregard for the rules should be punished harshly.

Don't give me your insipid apologies. Front the match referee and cop what you deserve, a ban from the rest of the series.

But I take responsibility as the captain, I need to take control of the ship, but this is certainly something I'm not proud of and something that I can hope to learn from and come back strong from.

- Good cos if you get thru this debacle you'll not get another chance.

I am embarrassed to be sitting here talking about this. We're in the middle of such a great series and for something like this to overshadow the great cricket that's been played and not have a single cricket question in here, that's not what I'm about and not what the team's about.

- Well, no, it's exactly what you are about, at least admit that fact. You just did what you said you're not about...

We'll move past this. It's a big error in judgement but we'll learn from it and move past it. It's not what we're about, it's a poor reflection on everyone in that dressing room, particularly the leaders of the group. So absolutely if we weren't caught I'd still feel incredibly bad about it

- It's not an "error of judgement". Just admit you cheated.

 

[Burgey]

Bancroft was marking a line on the ball so everyone knew not to go past it. It’s a community service and he should be rewarded for it.

 

[Gnske]

I say this as an Australian, this is a disgrace. Blatant cheating and disregard for the rules should be punished harshly.

Don't give me your insipid apologies. Front the match referee and cop what you deserve, a ban from the rest of the series.

- Good cos if you get thru this debacle you'll not get another chance.

- Well, no, it's exactly what you are about, at least admit that fact. You just did what you said you're not about...

- It's not an "error of judgement". Just admit you cheated.

He made an error of judgement, we all do. Anyone could make the error of coercing your newest team-member to do your cheating for you.

 

[fredfertang]

What I find remarkable is that the Australians thought for one moment that the cameras wouldn't pick it up, and then having realised they had, proceeding to make themselves look infinitely worse by trying to hide the evidence - are they thick, arrogant or both?

As to trying to alter the condition of the ball all bowlers have tried it since time immemorial, which is why I told the Mailey/Douglas story - it's against the rules so there has to be a sanction but for me the basic sin is not as bad as sledging, and certainly not in the same league as any sort of fixing, or a fielder/keeper claiming he has held a catch when he knows damn well he hasn't - in fact I'd view a warningless mankading as more annoying, and that of course isn't even against the rules

 

[TheJediBrah]

this has left me really disappointed










that they got caught. Bloody amateurs.

 

[Flem274*]

this has left me really disappointed










that they got caught. Bloody amateurs.

pretty much. this is just the dumb mans version of mccullum/boult/southee moaning about the ball being out of shape until they get one that goes round corners.

should have smashed the ball into the wicket block with a bounce throw or used a short ball spell to get it out of shape.