Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

[zaremba]

Baggy Green ball tampering: Bancroft, Smith and the Aussie "Leadership Group"

Thought it might be worth having a separate thread for this, unless the mods disagree?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

TPC = The Professional Cheat

Only thing to question is how long they have been at it?

Should make the ashes result null and void if you ask me.

 

[harsh.ag]

Thought it might be worth having a separate thread for this, unless the mods disagree?

Was about to do this actually. But then thought it's gonna go on in the main thread anyway. No problem with this existing though. The more traffic diverted here the better imo.

 

[harsh.ag]

As Smith said the whole leadership was involved will Warner,Lyon,starc and Hazlewood escape punishment..

Yeah this is a bit of a sticking point. Wouldn't be that surprised if everyone got something. If it happens, then Smith and Bancroft should get more than the others imo.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

So this was a makeshift sandpaper?

Or,

The ones they use for nail filings

An Emery board

 

[zaremba]

Some "hot take" thoughts:

1. No-one is innocent. Check your own team's record before piling in. If you're a Pakistan fan feeling this somehow vindicates you, it doesn't - don't make me post video of various of your players digging their nails into the ball in 1992. And by the same token, I'm well aware of Atherton cheating in 1994.

2. Still, deeply disappointed in Australia. Their record in this particular context has been relatively good before now. A history of very poor behaviour in some regards, obviously, but I've hardly ever taken them for cheats. And this was plain, premeditated cheating.

3. I suspect we are, as yet, nowhere near knowing where personal responsibility lies for this. I do give some credit to both Bancroft and Smith for fronting up at the press conference. But I wondered if it was significant when Smith asked Bancroft to answer the first question. But if Smith was aware in advance of the plan, and approved it, as he says, then he must face serious consequences. As must others others in the so-called "leadership team" - presumably including dear old Dave Warner - who approved the plan. I feel they bear more responsibility than Bancroft as the junior member of the team.

4. As for Lehmann, I really don't like the look of the video evidence which appears to incriminate him. Seems that when the balloon went up, he told 12th man Handscomb to get a message out to Bancroft - to which Bancroft responded by hiding the yellow tape in his trousers. That of course doesn't suggest DL knew of the plan in advance, but does suggest he was instrumental in the dishonest cover-up.

Any or all of the above might prove hopelessly misinformed or misguided as the evidence emerges. We shall see. But I would remind everyone in particular of point 1. What this sordid little tale reminds us is that no-one is innocent.

 

[harsh.ag]

Given that pretty much everyone was in on this is there any suspicion that maybe they threw him under the bus a bit here. As in "someone needs to handle the sand-paper, get the young disposable lad involved." If Smith was that eke to cheat surely he could have at least been man enough to do it himself.

Yeah, this was actually the most deplorable bit about this whole thing. Corrupting the disposable junior. Doesn't make sense on any level because obviously you're not douchey enough to completely throw him under the bus (nor do I suspect he would have silently let himself be thrown there anyways). So what's the point? Should have kept him away from all this.

 

[Burgey]

TPC = The Professional Cheat

Only thing to question is how long they have been at it?

Should make the ashes result null and void if you ask me.

Mike Atherton to comment.

In his usual boring and non-incisive way.

 

[IKWT]

Some "hot take" thoughts:

1. No-one is innocent. Check your own team's record before piling in. If you're a Pakistan fan feeling this somehow vindicates you, it doesn't - don't make me post video of various of your players digging their nails into the ball in 1992. And by the same token, I'm well aware of Atherton cheating in 1994.
.

What a bizarre view. Most players are honest. A few players from different countries doing this over decades does not mean "no-one is innocent". Flagrant cheating should not be minimised by the 'everyone's doing it' excuse.

The question is whether this was a one off or just the time they got caught? I'm certain there wouldn't be the same video evidence in a home series as there is here.

 

[zaremba]

What a bizarre view. Most players are honest. A few players from different countries doing this over decades does not mean "no-one is innocent".

You're quite right. Poorly expressed by me. I don't mean at a personal level, but at a national level. I mean that no team or nation can confidently regard themselves as above all this.

 

[Top_Cat]

3. I suspect we are, as yet, nowhere near knowing where personal responsibility lies for this. I do give some credit to both Bancroft and Smith for fronting up at the press conference. But I wondered if it was significant when Smith asked Bancroft to answer the first question. But if Smith was aware in advance of the plan, and approved it, as he says, then he must face serious consequences. As must others others in the so-called "leadership team" - presumably including dear old Dave Warner - who approved the plan. I feel they bear more responsibility than Bancroft as the junior member of the team.

4. As for Lehmann, I really don't like the look of the video evidence which appears to incriminate him. Seems that when the balloon went up, he told 12th man Handscomb to get a message out to Bancroft - to which Bancroft responded by hiding the yellow tape in his trousers. That of course doesn't suggest DL knew of the plan in advance, but does suggest he was instrumental in the dishonest cover-up.

This rung my bell too, I have to admit. Not sure why but it was odd.

Initially I thought all the ‘leadership group’ talk was Smith saying he wasn’t there or aware but as skipper was taking responsibility. Of course, then he said the whole group had discussed it and included himself in discussions.

The risk/reward ratio is was just so bad on this too. Not as if they were getting spanked, the series is 1-1 and they were still very much in the game. Aside from all the negative stuff that should come their way on sportsmanship terms, it’s a damning indictment of them as cricketers that the state of the game they were only a little behind in was all it took for them to be desperate enough to pull a doomed stunt like this. Baffling.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Yeah, this was actually the most deplorable bit about this whole thing. Corrupting the disposable junior. Doesn't make sense on any level because obviously you're not douchey enough to completely throw him under the bus (nor do I suspect he would have silently let himself be thrown there anyways). So what's the point? Should have kept him away from all this.

And then, as it appears, instructing him to lie to the umpire when he got caught.

 

[vandem]

Doublespeak from Smith in the press conference:

"No, I won't be considering stepping down. I still think I'm the right the person for the job"

"But I take responsibility as the captain..."

 

[zaremba]

Flagrant cheating should not be minimised by the 'everyone's doing it' excuse.

"Everyone's doing it" is not an excuse and, of course, I didn't suggest it was. What Smith, Bancroft and the Australian "leadership team" has been caught doing is disgraceful. My point is just that before we all mount our jingoistic high horses, we need to remember that none of us (at a national level) has an entirely clean record.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

So 'the job' is cheating, I guess…

 

[harsh.ag]

Man I want to live to see the day Kohli becomes the Oz coach.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

"Everyone's doing it" is not an excuse and, of course, I didn't suggest it was. What Smith, Bancroft and the Australian "leadership team" has been caught doing is disgraceful. My point is just that before we all mount our jingoistic high horses, we need to remember that none of us (at a national level) has an entirely clean record.

Yeah, but when you're losing moral high ground to this guy…



On a serious note I don't think anything this flagrant is widespread at all, lip gloss or dirt maybe but this is another level.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Mike Atherton to comment.

In his usual boring and non-incisive way.

He should have been sacked as should The Peoples Cheat.

 

[fredfertang]

In 1921 England skipper Johnny Douglas spent hours trying to work Arthur Mailey out and couldn't so insisted that Mailey show him his right hand. You'd have expected any self-respecting Aussie to tell him to foxtrot oscar, but Mailey didn't and showed him his hand - Douglas said words to the effect of "That's it Arthur you've got resin on your hands I'm going to have to tell the umpires - the trick was that Bert Oldfield smeared bird lime on his gloves and shook hands with Mailey at the beginning of every over, but I digress

Mailey's reaction was to point out to Douglas that fairness demanded he show Mailey his right hand as well, which Douglas, being an English gentleman of course, felt obliged to agree to. The nail on his forefinger was worn away, and Mailey's comment was "You've been picking the seam so hard Mr Douglas you've damaged your nail"

That was the end of it

 

[zaremba]

In 1921 England skipper Johnny Douglas spent hours trying to work Arthur Mailey out and couldn't so insisted that Mailey show him his right hand. You'd have expected any self-respecting Aussie to tell him to foxtrot oscar, but Mailey didn't and showed him his hand - Douglas said words to the effect of "That's it Arthur you've got resin on your hands I'm going to have to tell the umpires - the trick was that Bert Oldfield smeared bird lime on his gloves and shook hands with Mailey at the beginning of every over, but I digress

Mailey's reaction was to point out to Douglas that fairness demanded he show Mailey his right hand as well, which Douglas, being an English gentleman of course, felt obliged to agree to. The nail on his forefinger was worn away, and Mailey's comment was "You've been picking the seam so hard Mr Douglas you've damaged your nail"

That was the end of it

Johnny Blue Tit Today Doulgas