The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Bolo]

I know Tayfield was an excellent spinner, but so was Faulkner in his own right, in which case I'd have both Neil Adcock or even Shaun Pollock ahead instead of Tayfield, have have the 4-pronged pace attack (plus Kallis as bonus) & the one excellent spinning all-rounder in Faulkner.

Faulkner played in an era of low batting averages. His record is substantially better at home (matting wickets) than away. It's not so clear that his style of bowling (fast spin) would be successful on modern covered pitches. I don't think he's an ATG bowler, but at the very least there is a huge amount of doubt about how good he would have been. He just about makes the side on batting alone though, so he stays.

I want an ATG spinner in my side, which Tayfield definitely was. The main argument is variety. 5 right arm quicks are too many when you could have a bowler who brings something else to the table. When the ball isn't really moving off the pitch or in the air (as happens a lot), all the bowlers will struggle. Tayfield will be the best bowler under those circumstances, so he adds an extra dimension. When the ball is doing a lot, you have plenty of firepower in the other guys. More would always be better, but I would rather cover a hole than add to a strength.

 

[Coronis]

Procter was just insane... definitely in an AT SA XI. 48 centuries, 1400 wickets @ 19, also bowled off-spin (which people never seem to remember), once scored 6 centuries in consecutive first class innings (tied with Bradman and Fry), once hit 6 consecutive 6's (over 2 overs). With him Richards and Pollock, not to mention others like Rice, van der Bijl etc. SA in the 70's would have in my mind, destroyed all comers, including the WI.

 

[Bolo]

Different eras. Windies only started to peak at the end of the 70s, by which time SA were getting weaker. Late 70s would have been a great contest

 

[Red]

I know Tayfield was an excellent spinner, but so was Faulkner in his own right, in which case I'd have both Neil Adcock or even Shaun Pollock ahead instead of Tayfield, have have the 4-pronged pace attack (plus Kallis as bonus) & the one excellent spinning all-rounder in Faulkner.

When the bowling attack already includes Steyn, Donald, Procter/Pollock plus Kallis, I'd prefer to go with the twin spin options in Tayfield and Faulkner, over adding another pacer into the mix.

Mike Procter played 7 test matches. Shaun Pollock played 108; picked up 400 plus wickets and maintained a 30+ batting average. I just cant believe one could choose Procter over him and justify it with sound cricketing arguments.

I wont begrudge anyone picking Pollock over Procter in their XI, makes enough sense. As others have said though, Procter was an amazing all-rounder, in my mind he was probably better than Botham and Kapil and on par with Imran as an all rounder. His FC numbers certainly support this.

It's a great shame Procter couldnt play tests. His FC bowling figures (401 matches, 1417 wickets, avg 19, SR 46) are truly staggering. All round talent aside, he may have been on par with Marshall/McGrath as a test quick given the chance. Was clearly durable also, playing 401 FC matches.

 

[Gowza]

Procter has so much upside, a bowler who's as good as anyone and as a batsman he's somewhere between Imran and Miller.

If I'm going for overall strength I'm picking a team with all of sobers, Miller, procter and Imran. But if I'm picking on ability and specialisation I'm going to pick a couple of specialist bowlers (likely Marshall, McGrath, holding or Donald). I don't think there is too much of a difference between the best fast bowling allrounders and the best specialist fast bowlers though, so the batting from the allrounders compensates for any lesser bowling strength (think of a batting line up with the likes of Miller, Procter and Imran batting from 8-10 position - prob would have Warne at 11 unless you want to pick Faulkner for his batting).

I've previously listed an xi of:

B.richards
Hobbs
Bradman
Pollock
V. Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Miller
Procter
Imran
Warne

In that you have quality batting done to 10 and Warne isn't bad anyway, at 11. You've got legspin, offspin can come from procter and Viv (i believe Miller could bowl a bit of offspin to) if you want any, sobers covers all of the left arm spin options and you've got swing coming from your fast bowlers.

If I was to specialise it more then the missing bowlers are Marshall and murali so they'd probably be in the squad to come into the xi when conditions suit. Bowling unit of Marshall, McGrath, Warne and murali plus sobers as the fifth bowler, in that you get 3 pacers and 3 spinners thanks to sobers.

 

[Coronis]

Procter has so much upside, a bowler who's as good as anyone and as a batsman he's somewhere between Imran and Miller.

If I'm going for overall strength I'm picking a team with all of sobers, Miller, procter and Imran. But if I'm picking on ability and specialisation I'm going to pick a couple of specialist bowlers (likely Marshall, McGrath, holding or Donald). I don't think there is too much of a difference between the best fast bowling allrounders and the best specialist fast bowlers though, so the batting from the allrounders compensates for any lesser bowling strength (think of a batting line up with the likes of Miller, Procter and Imran batting from 8-10 position - prob would have Warne at 11 unless you want to pick Faulkner for his batting).

I've previously listed an xi of:

B.richards
Hobbs
Bradman
Pollock
V. Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Miller
Procter
Imran
Warne

In that you have quality batting done to 10 and Warne isn't bad anyway, at 11. You've got legspin, offspin can come from procter and Viv (i believe Miller could bowl a bit of offspin to) if you want any, sobers covers all of the left arm spin options and you've got swing coming from your fast bowlers.

If I was to specialise it more then the missing bowlers are Marshall and murali so they'd probably be in the squad to come into the xi when conditions suit. Bowling unit of Marshall, McGrath, Warne and murali plus sobers as the fifth bowler, in that you get 3 pacers and 3 spinners thanks to sobers.

Even for that XI just subbing in Marshall for Miller would be fine and still give you a very strong tail. Miller's bowling just isn't on the same level as Procter/Imran/Hadlee, Oh and another point for Procter, 401 matches and 325 catches. Not too shabby.

 

[bagapath]

Smith *
Amla
Kallis
Nourse
ABDV
Faulkner
Boucher +
S.Pollock
Steyn
Tayfield
Donald

That's a real, no-nonsense SA Test XI

 

[akilana]

Not the best XI from SA though.

 

[Gowza]

Even for that XI just subbing in Marshall for Miller would be fine and still give you a very strong tail. Miller's bowling just isn't on the same level as Procter/Imran/Hadlee, Oh and another point for Procter, 401 matches and 325 catches. Not too shabby.

Yep,

Procter
Imran
Marshall
Warne

Still very strong bowling and the tail is still very very strong. Unfortunate for hadlee because although he was a terrific allrounder most would probably pick Marshall or imran ahead of him, but he’s still a very worthy candidate for an all time xi.

 

[Bolo]

If you are trying to avoid the unknown, Amla shouldn't really be opening. Bruce Mitchell in as the opener who fits your theme best.

 

[Bolo]

The winning would be nice, but it's not nearly as important as not losing 11

Gavaskar
Goddard 3
S Pollock 1
Bradman
Dravid
Sangakkara (wk)
Kallis 4
Barrington
Sobers 6
Davidson 2
Warne 5

 

[bagapath]

The winning would be nice, but it's not nearly as important as not losing 11

Gavaskar
Goddard 3
S Pollock 1
Bradman
Dravid
Sangakkara (wk)
Kallis 4
Barrington
Sobers 6
Davidson 2
Warne 5

Gavaskar
Boycott
Dravid
Kallis
Barrington
Goddard
Healy (wk)
S.M. Pollock
Bedser
Bedi
McGrath

VS

Sehwag
Jayasurya
Lara
Pietersen
ABDV
Botham
Gilchrist (wk)
McGill
Steyn
Akhthar
Waqar

 

[Red]

Smith *
Amla
Kallis
Nourse
ABDV
Faulkner
Boucher +
S.Pollock
Steyn
Tayfield
Donald

That's a real, no-nonsense SA Test XI

Except Amla isn't an opener.

 

[Prince EWS]

Smith *
Amla
Kallis
Nourse
ABDV
Faulkner
Boucher +
S.Pollock
Steyn
Tayfield
Donald

That's a real, no-nonsense SA Test XI

I kinda like it. Definitely Mitchell and Waite in for Amla and Boucher for me, but otherwise I think that's my side as well. AB de Villiers v Herb Taylor v Graeme Pollock is a tough one too but not something I'd pick an argument over.

 

[Bolo]

Gavaskar
Boycott
Dravid
Kallis
Barrington
Goddard
Healy (wk)
S.M. Pollock
Bedser
Bedi
McGrath

VS

Sehwag
Jayasurya
Lara
Pietersen
ABDV
Botham
Gilchrist (wk)
McGill
Steyn
Akhthar
Waqar

Scoring rate is going to be pretty high. 1st team has good enough bats to hit boundaries off the bad balls, and second team doesn't care that there aren't going to be any bad balls.

Winner basically depends on the amount of swing.

 

[Tom Flint]

Gavaskar
Boycott
Dravid
Kallis
Barrington
Goddard
Healy (wk)
S.M. Pollock
Bedser
Bedi
McGrath

VS

Sehwag
Jayasurya
Lara
Pietersen
ABDV
Botham
Gilchrist (wk)
McGill
Steyn
Akhthar
Waqar

Gilchrist is surely a better bat than botham. Should be your no. 6

 

[jimmy101]

Big ask batting MacGill at 8. Absolutely love both teams though!

 

[jimmy101]

Ok, so I did this for a bit of a laugh...

Cricketweb World Cup - Match 1
AUSTRALIA vs INDIA

CricketWeb WORLD CUP

Australia

1 Teuton - Well-rounded opening batsman with a wonderful technical nous.
2 NUFAN - One of Austrlaia's finest takes up Boony's position in the order. Also in charge of beer.
3 watson - Love him or loathe him type of batsman, no-one can diminish his contributions over the years.
4 Burgey* - No nonsense skipper at 4, boasts over 10,000 Test match posts.
5 morgieb - A revered & seasoned veteran batsman who can still go.
6 The Battlers Prince - Skilled all-rounder. Capable of stunning cricket.
7 Red Hill+ - Wise old head who is entrusted with the gloves.
8 mr_mister - Quality quickie with a ton of wickets & posts to his name.
9 Gnske - The not-so-secret weapon of the side, can tear through trolls/batting lineups in a flash.
10 Marcuss - Wonderful spin bowler whose post to wicket ratio is outstanding.
11 Prince EWS - The Grand Old Man of the team can still get the ball to swing regularly.

India

1 honestbharani - Outstanding opening batsmen who has been away from the scene lately.
2 Himannv - Much loved opener welcomed back into the fold recently.
3 weldone - Supreme middle order batsman whose shots often have the crowd saying "well done".
4 OverratedSanity - Very very special batsman, much in the vein of VVS.
5 srbhkshk - Promising newcomer who has a great grasp on the game.
6 Daemon - Exciting all-rounder. You don't know where he'll pop up & what he'll do next.
7 kingkallis+ - The draft master takes up his position behind the stumps.
8 harsh.ag* - Cut-throat fast bowler & team captain. Will either bowl you out, or ban you.
9 Shri - Explosive quick, can be hostile on even the most docile of pitches.
10 bagapath - India's veteran spin bowler can turn them a mile.
11 vcs - Yet another of India's marvellous spinners, passionate about the game.

Who would win?

Next match: England vs World XI.

 

[Starfighter]

Hmm. If this was for tests, and played neutrally I'd see it petering out to a draw. Glimpses into the politics subbie indicate to rigid tactics and techniques ill suited to away conditions. I think India gets this one in a limited overs context because they're used to being under fifty-three times times the pressure so they will be better able to handle the key moments.

 

[stephen]

Tough to leave Spark out of the Australian lineup. His authoritative innings' aren't flashy but they're consistent and quality.

Clearly Australia has the experience, while the Indian lineup is fresh and hungry. Australia 3-1.