The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[the big bambino]

All good calls. I kept my side to players I’ve seen (play live) an old timey XI would include Larwood and possibly Ted Mac, Tate and Verity. Batsmen could include May, Jackson and Trumper. Kippax?

 

[Prince EWS]

I would perhaps have Shaun Pollock in place of Faulkner, harsh as that may be on the latter.

BTW, what does CW think about Greame Smith vs. Bruce Mitchell? I often tend to pick the latter.

Both FTW.

But definitely Mitchell if I had to choose.

 

[Bolo]

BTW, what does CW think about Greame Smith vs. Bruce Mitchell? I often tend to pick the latter.

Smith scored his runs in a very easy era, but had a habit of making very valuable runs. Very little in it. When that happens with a modern player and a pre WW2 I tend to default to the modern player because they are more of a known entity. I'm usually picking smith here for the same reason I'm only picking Hammond on occasion rather than every time I make a test 11.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, Mitchell for me too. Smith and Mitchell together are an incredible pair to have open in the second innings for their team.

 

[bagapath]

Not the best XI from SA though.

It is actually.


I guess an all time England XI can benefit from having Wisden and Bedlam; but they didn't play test cricket. Barry Richards played 4 matches, Procter 7. Not good enough for selection. They would be among my top 3 choices for an all time First Class XI from South Africa, though.

 

[bagapath]

First XI from 1975 to 1991

Gavaskar
Greenidge
Viv Richards
Greg Chappell
Allan Border *
Imran Khan
Alan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Bishan Bedi

Second XI from 1975 to 1991

Geoff Boycott
Desmond Haynes
David Gower
Javed Miandad
Clive Lloyd *
Ian Botham
Jeff Dujon (wk)
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Andy Roberts
Chandrasekar

Third XI from 1975 to 1991

Graham Gooch *
David Boon
Martin Crowe
Zaheer Abbas
G.R. Viswanath
Kapil Dev
Rodney Marsh (wk)
Jeff Thompson
Colin Croft
Abdul Qadir
Bob Willis

 

[jimmy101]

Ah '75 - '91, what an awesome era for cricket.

 

[Days of Grace]

Hell of a tail in the third XI!

 

[Bolo]

I feel like there might be a case to be made for getting Garner into a team even if you think he's not the best bowler because he's likely the better change bowler, and is different in style. Possibly more so here because you have 4 quicks and a spinner who is a little weak by ATG standards.

This tail is long in the 1st team, and batting quality makes a difference on almost all of these bowlers. Lillee out, Garner in- even though I think Lillee would likely make the second best change bowler, the variety of Garner wins.

Also, would like to see Richie Richardson in one of these teams. He was the 1st batsman I ever liked and averaged late 40s in the period in question. Not the first team, but maybe the second and definitely the 3rd.

 

[bagapath]

Fourth XI

Just pushing it........

John Wright
Mohsin Khan
Richie Richardson
Doug Walters
Alvin Kalicharan
Tony Greig *
Derryk Murray (wk)
Terry Alderman
Derek Underwood
Sarfraz Nawaz
Rodney Hogg

 

[jimmy101]

Alderman at 8? Damn. I Like the top 6 though.

 

[akilana]

It is actually.


I guess an all time England XI can benefit from having Wisden and Bedlam; but they didn't play test cricket. Barry Richards played 4 matches, Procter 7. Not good enough for selection. They would be among my top 3 choices for an all time First Class XI from South Africa, though.

No it isn’t. Pollock wasn’t a better player than Procter because Pollock happened to play more tests due to political situations.

 

[bagapath]

No it isn’t. Pollock wasn’t a better player than Procter because Pollock happened to play more tests due to political situations.

I didnt say that. it is the best south african test xi coz it consists of players who played (enough) test cricket for SA. There is always a best first class x i for those who were great at that level. We dont have enough info to assume procter and co would have been test champs in the long run.

I am saying Pollock is a test cricketer. Procter isn't. Seven swallows don't make a spring.

 

[jimmy101]

Honestly, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest Procter would have been a Test ATG. If you're not convinced by his stats then defs check out some footage of him on YouTube!

 

[Red]

I didnt say that. it is the best south african test xi coz it consists of players who played (enough) test cricket for SA. There is always a best first class x i for those who were great at that level. We dont have enough info to assume procter and co would have been test champs in the long run.

I am saying Pollock is a test cricketer. Procter isn't. Seven swallows don't make a spring.

That's fine if it's the criteria you want to use. Most people just make a SA al time XI. Mostly based on tests, but not necessarily. For instance, when cricinfo did the all time XIs a few years back they included all three of Richards, G.Pollock and Procter.

 

[bagapath]

Honestly, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest Procter would have been a Test ATG. If you're not convinced by his stats then defs check out some footage of him on YouTube!

of course I have. he was simply awesome. and he was a superstar when i was a kid in the 70s and 80s, always compared favorably with the four great all-rounders dominating world cricket. but i didnt see him play enough test cricket (it wasnt his fault; but he didn't any which way) for me to select him when i know for sure shaun pollock had a stellar test career. you can't punish such a champion like shaun just because we have romantic notions of Procter ruling the world of test cricket when in reality he played only 7 paltry games.

 

[bagapath]

All-time XI of champs who played less than 30 tests

Barry Richards
Bill Ponsford
G. Headley
G.A. Pollock
Eddie Paynter
Mike Procter
Gerry Alexander +*
Peter Pollock
Colin Croft
Tiger O'Reilley
Syd Barnes

12th man: Ryan Harris

 

[jimmy101]

^ I'd pay double the fee of admission to see that team.

 

[harsh.ag]

All-time XI of champs who played less than 30 tests

Barry Richards
Bill Ponsford
G. Headley
G.A. Pollock
Eddie Paynter
Mike Procter
Gerry Alexander +*
Peter Pollock
Colin Croft
Tiger O'Reilley
Syd Barnes

12th man: Ryan Harris

Excellent. Might be good for balance to have Faulkner instead of one of O'Reilly/Barnes.

 

[AndrewB]

Looking back at the "200 Tests or less" draft from a couple of years ago, a lot of those were picked in the first round (along with Grace, Larwood, Bland, Tyson, Archie Jackson, Merchant and Lohmann).