South Africa team selection

[StephenZA]

Remember him arriving in SA then press conference in the morning and then supposedly went to Centurion first and then Wanderers later and when there saw Mulder taking wickets. Saw him working with Mulder with the ball before that ODI game he got against the Bangers too.

I don't think we should be too critical of Faf. It isn't that bad. But I rather them realise that he should be picked not because he can be a 5th bowler but rather that he can be part of a top 7 with the bat.

Well I suppose if he is comparing him to de Bruyn then Mulder would be considered a bowling allrounder : ) ... even though chance is that Mulder could also become a better bat!

 

[Bahseph]

I actually think that is what Faf meant. Not that Mulder is a bowling allrounder but if they needed more overs they would pick him. de Bruyn isn't even on a Van Zyl level as a medium pacer imo

 

[SeamUp]

Verrynne has stepped up at every level he's played for. Good to see young players getting meaningful performances. Morris getting a ton at domestic level is interesting. Reminds me of Parnell his struggles. Dreadful at international level but decent enough when he plays for his franchise.

By the way what's happened to Dayyan Galiem?

There is a belief that he doesn't work hard enough.

Considering he was the big cricketing hope from Rondebosch Boys High after quiet years (since G.Kirsten, Commins, Jackson, Ackerman, Paul Kirsten, Trott, Puttick , Bailey).

In his first XI there was Zubayr Hamza, Junaid Dawood (recently made franchise debut) and Murray Commins.

On his cricketing results. It seems like his bowling has really fallen off to mediums so then it comes to batting. I think that is what he is relying on but no real scores of substance, 30s, 40s, 50s etc

It says a lot when Jason Smith who wasn't performing at all kept being picked for so long ahead of him.

Funnily enough the same age group as Commins and Galiem was Verreynne and he has just accelerated past them.

WP cricket were so dominant for so long in junior structures but it has been less convincing recently after a good spell with Gauteng.

They mainly rely on 4 schools but in the past Plumstead (Jefferies, Adams, Duminy, Kleinveldt), Observatory (Chevalier), Bergvliet (Allan Elgar) & Pinelands (Matthews, Tsolekile) have had decent success and then Belville/Brackenfell area with Simons, Munnik, Paterson, B.Hendricks, Alexander, Q.Friend, Vallie, Linde. Other differences were keepers Canning/B.Barnes from Fairbairn like Belville in Northern suburbs. Also had a few good Jewish players like Lazard (Herzlia) and recently Cohen (Reddam)

Main 4

Wynberg : Levi, Telo, van Schalkwyk, Siboto, Muller (now in NZL) Verreynne, Bedingham, J.Smith (Mike Bowditch, Stephen Jones, Lamb, Le Roux, Kallis, Willoughby)
Rondebosch : Rippon (Holland), Commins, Hamza, Galiem, Dawood (Richard Morris, Gavin Pfuehl, G.Kirsten, J.Commins, Kenny Jackson, HD Ackerman, Paul Kirsten, Puttick, Trott, Bailey)
SACS : Piedt (Peter Kirsten, Dawson)
Bishops : Kieswetter (van der Bijl (but never played for WP), Kuiper, Richie Ryall, Gibbs)

I don't know. It just seems to be drying up in terms of quality we produced before.

Whilst we competed and won some trophies early days & post WW2 till 70s we were always in Transvaal and Natal's shadows. Our best were guys like Jack Cheetham, Clive van Ryneveld, Peter van der Merwe and spinners Harry Bromfield/Kelly Seymour who replaced Tayfield) .

Took Eddie Barlow to shake us up initially and some other non Captonians like Hylton Ackerman, Peter Swart (Rhodesian) , Andre Bruyns, Stephen Bruce (born Northern Rhodesia out of interest) , Ken McEwan, Denys Hobson and later Brian McMillan & Graeme Smith helped carry on, +Neil Johnson (Natalian via Zimbabwe) as the legends who weren't Capetonians but also had Wessels, Cullinan, Roy Pienaar here for short spells).

I guess it was the fact we were producing for so long and it feels weird we going through a more quiet patch.

Suppose Boland keep growing. Marais Erasmus stands out from isolation with Omar Henry ? They've had Roger Telemachus, Henry Williams, Claude Henderson, Justin Ontong, Stiaan van Zyl , Lizaad Williams ? Couple of others at other franchise now like Bjorn Fortuin, Keegan Petersen, Rabian Engelbrecht, Henry Davids

Got slightly off track. Sorry. Felt like getting that off my chest.

 

[SeamUp]

I actually think that is what Faf meant. Not that Mulder is a bowling allrounder but if they needed more overs they would pick him. de Bruyn isn't even on a Van Zyl level as a medium pacer imo

Yeah that is why I wasn't too sure the way he said it. He seems to be thinking batting all-rounder though for de Bruyn which is odd and the focus is on Mulder's bowling. Same thing has happened at the Lions for Mulder but I think it will become obvious eventually with Mulder that his batting will be what gets him into the SA team then his ability as a 5th bowler.

 

[Dendarii]

Yeah that is why I wasn't too sure the way he said it. He seems to be thinking batting all-rounder though for de Bruyn which is odd

Faf's comment makes a lot more sense if you replace "batting all-rounder" with "batsman" i.e.

“When we play seven batsmen it means we have three seamers and the spinner [Keshav Maharaj], which seems a touch thin. The fact that Theunis de Bruyn can bowl a few back-up overs of medium-pace is a push in the right direction for him. If we tend towards a batsman then it will be Theunis, but if we need someone to bowl more overs then we would tend towards Wiaan Mulder,”

So someone getting the quote wrong?

 

[SeamUp]

Faf's comment makes a lot more sense if you replace "batting all-rounder" with "batsman" i.e.



So someone getting the quote wrong?

Quite possibly

Although supposedly there has been massive work going into de Bruyn's bowling with Gibson. Supposedly out there in Prep and before play working with Gibson during this summer all the time.

 

[Bolo]

Doesn't this seem a little counterintuitive? If they recognise the need for a 5th option, why not develop the skills of a guy who has the natural talent. It would be a different story if dr Bruyn was a lock as a batsman, but he's not.

 

[Bahseph]

If de Bruyn can develop into a top order batsman who can fill in with a couple of overs in addition to Mulder being in the team I'd be pretty happy. Would take me back to the SA teams of old where we had plenty of bowling options.

 

[akilana]

If de Bruyn can develop into a top order batsman who can fill in with a couple of overs in addition to Mulder being in the team I'd be pretty happy. Would take me back to the SA teams of old where we had plenty of bowling options.

De Bryun has higher celing than Bavuma but they hve to pick Bavuma for his fielding.

 

[Rasimione]

There is a belief that he doesn't work hard enough.

Considering he was the big cricketing hope from Rondebosch Boys High after quiet years (since G.Kirsten, Commins, Jackson, Ackerman, Paul Kirsten, Trott, Puttick , Bailey).

In his first XI there was Zubayr Hamza, Junaid Dawood (recently made franchise debut) and Murray Commins.

On his cricketing results. It seems like his bowling has really fallen off to mediums so then it comes to batting. I think that is what he is relying on but no real scores of substance, 30s, 40s, 50s etc

It says a lot when Jason Smith who wasn't performing at all kept being picked for so long ahead of him.

Funnily enough the same age group as Commins and Galiem was Verreynne and he has just accelerated past them.

WP cricket were so dominant for so long in junior structures but it has been less convincing recently after a good spell with Gauteng.

They mainly rely on 4 schools but in the past Plumstead (Jefferies, Adams, Duminy, Kleinveldt), Observatory (Chevalier), Bergvliet (Allan Elgar) & Pinelands (Matthews, Tsolekile) have had decent success and then Belville/Brackenfell area with Simons, Munnik, Paterson, B.Hendricks, Alexander, Q.Friend, Vallie, Linde. Other differences were keepers Canning/B.Barnes from Fairbairn like Belville in Northern suburbs. Also had a few good Jewish players like Lazard (Herzlia) and recently Cohen (Reddam)

Main 4

Wynberg : Levi, Telo, van Schalkwyk, Siboto, Muller (now in NZL) Verreynne, Bedingham, J.Smith (Mike Bowditch, Stephen Jones, Lamb, Le Roux, Kallis, Willoughby)
Rondebosch : Rippon (Holland), Commins, Hamza, Galiem, Dawood (Richard Morris, Gavin Pfuehl, G.Kirsten, J.Commins, Kenny Jackson, HD Ackerman, Paul Kirsten, Puttick, Trott, Bailey)
SACS : Piedt (Peter Kirsten, Dawson)
Bishops : Kieswetter (van der Bijl (but never played for WP), Kuiper, Richie Ryall, Gibbs)

I don't know. It just seems to be drying up in terms of quality we produced before.

Whilst we competed and won some trophies early days & post WW2 till 70s we were always in Transvaal and Natal's shadows. Our best were guys like Jack Cheetham, Clive van Ryneveld, Peter van der Merwe and spinners Harry Bromfield/Kelly Seymour who replaced Tayfield) .

Took Eddie Barlow to shake us up initially and some other non Captonians like Hylton Ackerman, Peter Swart (Rhodesian) , Andre Bruyns, Stephen Bruce (born Northern Rhodesia out of interest) , Ken McEwan, Denys Hobson and later Brian McMillan & Graeme Smith helped carry on, +Neil Johnson (Natalian via Zimbabwe) as the legends who weren't Capetonians but also had Wessels, Cullinan, Roy Pienaar here for short spells).

I guess it was the fact we were producing for so long and it feels weird we going through a more quiet patch.

Suppose Boland keep growing. Marais Erasmus stands out from isolation with Omar Henry ? They've had Roger Telemachus, Henry Williams, Claude Henderson, Justin Ontong, Stiaan van Zyl , Lizaad Williams ? Couple of others at other franchise now like Bjorn Fortuin, Keegan Petersen, Rabian Engelbrecht, Henry Davids

Got slightly off track. Sorry. Felt like getting that off my chest.

Lol. Those are illustrious names you've mentioned there .

 

[Rasimione]

If de Bruyn can develop into a top order batsman who can fill in with a couple of overs in addition to Mulder being in the team I'd be pretty happy. Would take me back to the SA teams of old where we had plenty of bowling options.

There's also a risk that he might develop into a Duminy. They tried to improve his bowling and it messed up his batting a bit.

 

[Bahseph]

There's also a risk that he might develop into a Duminy. They tried to improve his bowling and it messed up his batting a bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but we did have genuine hope that Duminy could become a somewhat decent batting allrounder for us post Kallis. I'm just talking about de Bruyn bowling two or three overs a day to break a partnership etc. Hope he doesn't try to focus too much on his bowling in detriment to his main suit.

 

[SeamUp]

Only came across this article now.

https://citizen.co.za/sport/south-a...flashing-for-embattled-south-african-cricket/

Maybe time to start that doom and gloom thread. Actually think Marius did start one ?

 

[StephenZA]

Only came across this article now.

https://citizen.co.za/sport/south-a...flashing-for-embattled-south-african-cricket/

Maybe time to start that doom and gloom thread. Actually think Marius did start one ?

I'm pretty sure that most of that article is true.... we know that the administrators are almost definitely interfering in SA selection. But at the same time there was only one 'black' player in the last SA team, and they dropped Phehlukwayo (and Morris) and brought in Mulder. Putting young 'black' players under pressure sure, but not totally throwing everybody away.

Also as far as I'm aware the press conference was nothing but an impromptu Q&A when he went to a Gauteng board meeting? And Moosajee already had his contract extended. But who really knows.
https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/moroe-denies-divisive-csa-leadership-20180221

I am sure politics is going on and definite problems in CSA and cricket structures, particularly at FC level. But I'm not sure it is all down to quotas etc. Haroon lorgat did not help anybody by the end of his tenure.

As an example, the problems in SA rugby (who have set themselves a lower quota level and still miss it!) is considerably less down to quotas and more down to politics between unions and inhouse fighting within SARU; which has much to do with Louis Luyt tyrannical reign which has never been fully resolved.... I mean I look at SA rugby versus CSA and as a cricket lover feel pretty blessed.

 

[Bolo]

What does "administrative interference" re. Andile mean in the article? I assumed he played to get ahead on quotas because it was a dead rubber. The way that is phrased makes it sound like there was direct intervention a la Philander world cup.

 

[SeamUp]

CSA Contracts for the season ahead. Probably see a developmental shadow group announced later.

Cricket South Africa (CSA) today announced the Standard Bank Proteas Men’s squad to be awarded national contracts for the 2018-19 season. The contracts cover the bilateral tours away to Sri Lanka and Australia as well as the home series against Zimbabwe, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, finishing with the 2019 edition of the ICC World Cup to be played in England and Wales.

First time national contracts have been awarded to Aiden Markram and Lungi Ngidi who have both made their international debuts during the course of the past contract year.

“We made an exception last year in increasing the number of contracted players to 21 but this year we are comfortable that the normal standard number of 18 will be appropriate to maintain our national squads across all three formats,” commented CSA Acting Chief Executive, Thabang Moroe. “This enables us to contract both our Test players as well as those who are limited overs specialists.

“Aiden and Lungi have both made an immediate impact on the international scene and this is a continuation of our policy of having a strong squad with a good mix of young and experienced world-class stars,” added Mr Moroe.

CSA contracted Proteas players: Hashim Amla (WSB Cape Cobras), Temba Bavuma (WSB Cape Cobras), Quinton de Kock (Multiply Titans), AB de Villiers (Multiply Titans), JP Duminy (WSB Cape Cobras), Faf du Plessis (Multiply Titans), Dean Elgar (Multiply Titans), Imran Tahir (Hollywoodbets Dolphins), Keshav Maharaj (Hollywoodbets Dolphins), Aiden Markram (Multiply Titans), David Miller (VKB Knights), Chris Morris (Multiply Titans), Lungi Ngidi (Multiply Titans), Andile Phehlukwayo (Hollywoodbets Dolphins), Vernon Philander (WSB Cape Cobras), Kagiso Rabada (bizhub Highveld Lions), Tabraiz Shamsi (Multiply Titans), Dale Steyn (Multiply Titans).

 

[StephenZA]

What does "administrative interference" re. Andile mean in the article? I assumed he played to get ahead on quotas because it was a dead rubber. The way that is phrased makes it sound like there was direct intervention a la Philander world cup.

Probably both... rumours are that Phehlukwayo played even though Gibson and Faf wanted de Bruyn to play at Wanderers. Phehlukwayo was very much an 'unexpected' choice....

 

[SeamUp]

Central contracting only 18 players is very risky but cut-backs and all that.

 

[StephenZA]

Central contracting only 18 players is very risky but cut-backs and all that.

Yeah... feel like players are missing when I read that list, but can't actually think of anybody really?

 

[SeamUp]

Nothing for Behardien, de Bruyn, Mulder, Olivier

No Cook, Morkel and Phangiso who had too but obviously not getting for various reasons.

The developmental contracts will be interesting and that is only if they even do them this year.