***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2017/18

[straw man]

Fitter, faster, stronger: Black Caps take pride in leading the way for New Zealand sports teams

Found this article interesting.

Under former Olympic sprinter Chris Donaldson, the team's strength and conditioning coach for the past seven years, they're a lean, mean machine with Trent Boult still leading the way but the other fast bowlers and batsman Henry Nicholls snapping at his heels.

 

[Athlai]

Fitness across the board looks like it's improving. Ferguson a year ago was tired after 2 overs.

 

[thierry henry]

Today’s NZ Herald article marketing NZC and Saber Metrics .

"As long as people are trying to perform their role, doing the best they can, they'll get more opportunities. ..........."Sometimes people force old-style statistics down others' throats, but the only fact that matters is 'what have you done to help win a game for your team?'.

Come selection time - forget old fashioned player statistics - Trust Saber Metrics.

This is basically the CDG "argument" innit. All you new-age bastards can see how CDG fits a specified role within the way we want to play and I'm trying to force old-fashioned "can he actually bat or bowl?" bs down your throats.

Just wish you ****s would acknowledge it's NOT NORMAL to pick a BAD player because he can sometimes (rarely) do one thing that you really want someone to be able to do. I DON'T LIKE IT AND IT MAKES ME SAD.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah CDG is definitely not succeeding on regular stats either.

 

[thierry henry]

It makes me feel like I'm doomed to a lifetime of pointing to redundant stats and losing out to sabermetrics, cake, icing, and clean striking.

I guess at least (a) no-one ever liked statzzzz anyway and (b) I can always fall back on crowd-pleasing memey height-related shitposting

 

[Athlai]

That's awfully big of you.

 

[straw man]

This is basically the CDG "argument" innit. All you new-age bastards can see how CDG fits a specified role within the way we want to play and I'm trying to force old-fashioned "can he actually bat or bowl?" bs down your throats.

Just wish you ****s would acknowledge it's NOT NORMAL to pick a BAD player because he can sometimes (rarely) do one thing that you really want someone to be able to do. I DON'T LIKE IT AND IT MAKES ME SAD.

Is CDG a bad player though? Not on recent performance he's not. And I don't think 'can he actually bat or bowl' is ever really a context-free question - different roles are genuinely important and right now CDG is performing that innings-finisher role much better than any other players we've tried.

As it happens, he's accumulated a currently-amazing ODI batting average too, owing to a pile of not-outs, though we and the NZ selectors would be right not to concern themselves too much with that. It's how much you contribute to winning that matters, and CDG has contributed a lot a few times recently (and sucked badly once - 8* against India iirc). A good average and SR might be a good indicator of that or it might not, which is I think the point.

Also, we used to pick Craig McMillan who averaged 25 for the bulk of his ODI career ffs.

 

[thierry henry]

Is CDG a bad player though? Not on recent performance he's not.

Look at his List A record. He was very much selected to play ODI cricket despite being a bad 50-over player. Bad batting, bad bowling. I struggle to see the argument against that. It's based on generally poor performance over a long period of time.

I have accepted he has done well recently and now that he's in, he'll probably stay in if he keeps doing well.

And I don't think 'can he actually bat or bowl' is ever really a context-free question

I'm applying a layer of context to that question- the format of the game. I think beyond that there's a point where the performance is so bad you can't contextualise it into being good.

I firmly believe that "averaging low 20s in List A cricket over the course of a decade" is comfortably in the bracket where I can't contextualise that player into being a good selection as a batsman at a higher level.

Also, we used to pick Craig McMillan who averaged 25 for the bulk of his ODI career ffs.

Without looking into it I highly doubt there was much similarity between McMillan as a List A bat and CDG as a List A bat. Nevertheless McMillan was a pretty poor ODI batsman and it's not like that was just ignored during his career. He was (to the best of my recollection) selected on merit but then underperformed and maybe was retained for too long .

CDG on the other hand pretty much proved himself to be a poor player in the format but got picked anyway. I don't agree with that and the reasons seem pretty obvious to me. If he performs then that's great for us.

 

[Athlai]

Ah you see we didn't pick him based on how he plays List A cricket, we picked him based on how he plays domestic T20 cricket.

#icing

 

[thierry henry]

Ah you see we didn't pick him based on how he plays List A cricket, we picked him based on how he plays domestic T20 cricket.

#icing

Sure, and if so that is a pretty obscure selection strategy (and also inherently evil and sinful) but whatever, maybe it'll work.

 

[Zinzan]

Look at his List A record. He was very much selected to play ODI cricket despite being a bad 50-over player. Bad batting, bad bowling. I struggle to see the argument against that. It's based on generally poor performance over a long period of time.


.

Seriously, so what. A few players perform better at International level than FC/list A, especially those players who mature and blossom late..Andrew Jones was a great example of this. Averaged 35 at FC level and 44 at Test level.

As long as CGD continues to play well, which he has in all 3 international forms to date, I could care less about his FC or List A record.

 

[Zinzan]

Anybody bothered that KW is out for today's game?






I didn't think so. If anything it's probably a benefit for NZ in T20s.

 

[_Ed_]

Would have been an ideal chance to slot Chapman in somewhere in the middle order. Sigh.

 

[Zinzan]

Don't remind us Ed.

 

[_Ed_]

Bloody hell, they're comparing the pitch to the one at Yarrow Stadium last season.

 

[Zinzan]

Not a fan of Rance's selection. Bit long in the tooth now and thought he was fluky against the Windies. Be interesting how he goes here.

 

[_Ed_]

Not a fan of Rance's selection. Bit long in the tooth now and thought he was fluky against the Windies. Be interesting how he goes here.

The best I've seen him bowl in domestic games has generally been under lights. Not sure if there's anything to that, or if it's a coincidence.

 

[_Ed_]

Credit to Kitchen where it's due - top catch.

 

[thierry henry]

Seriously, so what.

So I'm still one of those old-school guys who selects based on performance I guess. I don't feel bad about it.

A few players perform better at International level than FC/list A, especially those players who mature and blossom late.

I'm genuinely unaware if CDG ever actually did "blossom late" leading to his selection, he didn't AFAIK but I could be mistaken.

As long as CGD continues to play well, which he has in all 3 international forms to date, I could care less about his FC or List A record.

Why would anyone disagree with this and who is arguing otherwise?

 

[Daemon]

Nawaz(3) at 3

Hopefully he bowls first change as well