*Official* Australia v England post-Ashes ODI series

[ImpatientLime]

this english lineup is nuts. every single one of the top 7 can take the game away from you in a flash.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Roy's innings was great, more so for the actual intent he showed. People have been saying that he was "just lucky" lot of skied mistimed shots, edges over keeper etc. but you need luck to make 180. And what he did that Finch/Marsh and co. didn't was actually show the willingness to take those risks and play the big shots. Finch and Marsh were way too circumspect, just sitting on Moeen Ali for example who was bowling straight nothing balls.

Went to the game tonight; good entertainment, certainly better than most of the MCG Test I went to several days of. I notice there's a lot of mocking of the crowd tonight (just over 37k) but that's pretty decent by modern MCG ODI standards; it's actually higher than when the these sides played in 2010/11 and only slightly lower than in 13/14. The days of the mega ODI crowds have been gone for 15-20 years in Australia, it's annoying when certain types ignore that to suggest today's turnout shows 'ODIs are dead'.

I don't know why people would expect huge crowds like they used to be when there's 2 Big Bash games in in Melbourne every week now as well.

 

[Burgey]

I think that's because Australia's batting depth isn't what it should be, so they had to be more circumspect, though I agree Ali should have been taken on.

Australia needs to stack its ODI side with more dynamic batsmen, and I would look to do it around Smith being at four and Marsh & Stoinis at six & seven. I'd play Maxwell at five, meaning they need a dynamic number three who's not afraid to go hard at it.

Finch
Warner
?
TPC
Maxwell
MMarsh
Stoinis

is a top seven with a fair bit of strike power in it. Smith can do the Root job and bat at a run a ball without going stupid while the others tee off. I'm not sure about number three, but ideally it would be a keeper/ batsman. Is it too soon for Carey? His ODD stats aren't exactly great. Bancroft maybe? Same applies to him. Handscomb's ODI and ODD stats are better, but I don't recall him keeping at all. he might be the answer at three or four, which would free up spots 8-11 for bowlers.

I just don't think they can afford to carry a keeper at 7 or 8 who bats as Paine does. Not that he's a total dud, just they need something more dynamic imo.

 

[quincywagstaff]

It’s a good point about Paine; he did OK yesterday but to be brutally honest 27 off 31 wasn’t fast enough in the context of the match. And considering he has a ODI career SR of sub-70 I don’t think he’s capable of a 40 off 30 at the end of the innings that often.

Picking someone like Paine seems a bit of a retrograde move by Oz; feels like they’re ignoring the previous 20 years of ODIs which they initiated by dropping Healy (who had a far higher SR than Paine) for Gilchrist and a ODI keeper had to be an explosive opener or middle order bat, not just a handy No. 7 who can nudge and eek out 25 off 30 in the closing overs.

Put it this way; would any opposition side be particularly fearful of seeing Paine come in for the closing overs of a ODI innings? Doubt it.

 

[morgieb]

It’s a good point about Paine; he did OK yesterday but to be brutally honest 27 off 31 wasn’t fast enough in the context of the match. And considering he has a ODI career SR of sub-70 I don’t think he’s capable of a 40 off 30 at the end of the innings that often.

Picking someone like Paine seems a bit of a retrograde move by Oz; feels like they’re ignoring the previous 20 years of ODIs which they initiated by dropping Healy (who had a far higher SR than Paine) for Gilchrist and a ODI keeper had to be an explosive opener or middle order bat, not just a handy No. 7 who can nudge and eek out 25 off 30 in the closing overs.

Put it this way; would any opposition side be particularly fearful of seeing Paine come in for the closing overs of a ODI innings? Doubt it.

Trouble with that is that I don't think there's anyone can really do that role. The only things that makes sense is to make Paine open (where he has been fairly dynamic at T20 level) or pick Handscomb as cake.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Paine was pretty decent as an opener in the 2009/10 period (forgotten how many ODIs he actually played) but he was a pretty slow scorer. Perhaps if conditions are particularly bowler-friendly in England for the 2019 WC he may be worth a shot there for stability but I doubt they'll try it.

As much as I don't rate Matthew Wade, I have to admit looking over his ODI stats he's probably unlucky to have lost his spot in the side; seems to have been punished for his poor Test performances and the desire to have one keeper for all formats. He had a poor last half-dozen matches or so but until then he generally had been doing his job with the bat in the 2015-17 period and I reckon he's a more dangerous prospect as a batsman in the closing stages than Paine is. But I'm pretty sure we won't see him again at international level.

 

[stephen]

Yeah Wade is unlucky to lose his spot.

Honestly Australia have been underwhelming at the ODI level since the 2015 World Cup. Which probably has more to do with the changes to the domestic cricket structure than anything else.

 

[morgieb]

Yeah Wade is unlucky to lose his spot.

Honestly Australia have been underwhelming at the ODI level since the 2015 World Cup. Which probably has more to do with the changes to the domestic cricket structure than anything else.

Yeah I'm getting the vibe that Australia don't really know what they're doing at the shorter formats with selection. Don't seem to be taking it that seriously. Also hasn't helped that Maxwell and Faulkner lost form and Starc went from h4x to merely good.

 

[Second Spitter]

australia needs to stack its odi side with more funky stuff batsmen, and i would look to do it around smith being at four and marsh & stoinis at six & seven. I'd play maxwell at five, meaning they need a dynamic number three who's not afraid to go hard at it.

ftfy

 

[TheJediBrah]

I did say earlier in the season that Wade was still our best option in ODIs. We've got a lot of promising keeper batsmen but none of them are going to be good ODI no. 7s.

Nevill, Carey, Peirson etc. are all going to do about the same as Paine does. Run-a-ball type stuff.

edit: If it was up to me I'd just put Handscomb in at 4 (since we aren't going to be moving Warner or Finch from opening) and have Maxwell/Stoinis/Marsh from 5-7.

Hell, maybe even move them down to 6-8 and bring in another aggressive batsman (Darcy Short?), and get rid of Zampa. Short & Maxwell can bowl Zampa's overs. At this stage he's just a wasted spot.

 

[Second Spitter]

I did say earlier in the season that Wade was still our best option in ODIs. We've got a lot of promising keeper batsmen but none of them are going to be good ODI no. 7s.

Nevill, Carey, Peirson etc. are all going to do about the same as Paine does. Run-a-ball type stuff.

edit: If it was up to me I'd just put Handscomb in at 4 (since we aren't going to be moving Warner or Finch from opening) and have Maxwell/Stoinis/Marsh from 5-7.

Hell, maybe even move them down to 6-8 and bring in another aggressive batsman (Darcy Short?), and get rid of Zampa. Short & Maxwell can bowl Zampa's overs. At this stage he's just a wasted spot.

Bancroft?

otoh, I'm starting to believe Warner is becoming predominately a long-form player.

 

[Daemon]

Who's roughly next in line for ODIs if Head is dropped?

Big fan of Khawaja, think he should get another go.

Don't know anything about guys like Hughes, Maddinson, Patterson etc. They'll never look at Ferguson but even he's got pretty good numbers.

I know some of them are openers but Smith could just drop down to 4 and one of these guys bat 3.

 

[Burgey]

Ussie is a good shout but it doesn't solve the issue of a lower-middle order slot being taken up by a keeper who doesn't score quickly enough.

Also don't think Ussie's fielding helps him. He's, well, at best portly and at worst ponderous to be kind to him. Saw him the other night on the boundary for the Thunder at the SCG in front of where we were sitting and it was horrible to watch. He and Arun in the same side is next level bad from an outfielding POV.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bancroft?

otoh, I'm starting to believe Warner is becoming predominately a long-form player.

Nah Warner has been excellent in ODIs for the last few years.

Bancroft is a good shout though. Forgot about him, may not be much better than Paine as a bat though, and would be a worse keeper.

Who's roughly next in line for ODIs if Head is dropped?

Big fan of Khawaja, think he should get another go.

Don't know anything about guys like Hughes, Maddinson, Patterson etc. They'll never look at Ferguson but even he's got pretty good numbers.

I know some of them are openers but Smith could just drop down to 4 and one of these guys bat 3.

Khawaja, Smarsh, Maxwell, White, Handscomb, Short, Lynn (if he wasn't injured). There's plenty of options, all much better than Head.

(15 year old me would be shocked to see me say there was a lot of things better than Head)

 

[quincywagstaff]

otoh, I'm starting to believe Warner is becoming predominately a long-form player.

Warner has scored 9 ODI tons since June 2016 and certainly Oz's best overseas ODI bat in that time. Still a more important batsman than Smith in this format imo.

 

[Prince EWS]

Who's roughly next in line for ODIs if Head is dropped?

White apparently.

 

[Burgey]

If we want a coco bananas top order then Lynn is great at three. Next WC is in England though so whether the balls to the wall approach is he right one is a different issue

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I am honestly starting to think we should forget Lynn completely until he can prove his fitness over an extended run of time. A clear pattern is emerging: get injured, spend some time out, rush back prematurely and then get injured again. Time to get serious.

 

[Second Spitter]

Warner has scored 9 ODI tons since June 2016 and certainly Oz's best overseas ODI bat in that time. Still a more important batsman than Smith in this format imo.

I am well aware of his form in the last 18 months. What I meant was "is going to become" a long-form player.

I am honestly starting to think we should forget Lynn completely until he can prove his fitness over an extended run of time. A clear pattern is emerging: get injured, spend some time out, rush back prematurely and then get injured again. Time to get serious.

His 50 overs record is pretty average, itbt. He only gets picked in the ODI team on the back of his T20 form to put bums on seats.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Aussies need to wise up. 300 won't win many games against England.