England disintegrating like in 2013-14 Ashes - Johnson

[vcs]

Yeah, winning in England is traditionally further outside Australia's comfort zone compared to winning in SA. They've always managed to do well in SA, even with somewhat ordinary looking sides (2009 series win comes to mind). They won with Andrew McDonald, Siddle and Hilfenhaus in the attack LOL.

 

[Spark]

Eh, Aus have started as underdogs for the last three tours of SA and still found a way. Just seems to click over there for some reason, like it does for SA when they tour here.

No one should be making any confident predictions about 2019 (which is when I think the England Ashes is?)

 

[S.Kennedy]

Too late.

I'm not hoping or anything there. I'm simply making a prediction

 

[S.Kennedy]

Yeah, winning in England is traditionally further outside Australia's comfort zone compared to winning in SA. They've always managed to do well in SA, even with somewhat ordinary looking sides (2009 series win comes to mind). They won with Andrew McDonald, Siddle and Hilfenhaus in the attack LOL.

Ahh, but did they have Michael Beer?

 

[TNT]

I'm not hoping or anything there. I'm simply making a prediction

And I'm just pointing out its toddler stuff when your team is being beaten by another team to make a prediction that someone else would hammer them.

 

[Spark]

Ahh, but did they have Michael Beer?

We had Bryce McGain.

 

[adub]

Ahh, but did they have Michael Beer?

^^^ wot he said. The selection that made Michael Beer look like a solid pick (although tbf to Bryce he didn't exactly get chucked in on a raging turner)

 

[S.Kennedy]

And I'm just pointing out its toddler stuff when your team is being beaten by another team to make a prediction that someone else would hammer them.

So my team being utter garbage prohibits my having an opinion on another team? I'm first and foremost a fan of test cricket you have to remember and watch a lot of test cricket involving teams other than England, during which I'm neutral. Heck, I was supporting the Windies (v England) last summer. I wanted them to pick up that test, when Root gave a generous declaration!

 

[Daemon]

And what's Morkel? Morkel is bog ordinary.

Ok someone might have gotten a bit over excited re Philander etc, but there seems to be a bit of straw manning going on here. I'm pretty sure no one is arguing that Starc is better than Roberts, Holding, Garner, Marshall, Croft, Walsh or Ambrose ( I certainly wasn't), or that he'd be first picked in any test side since 1877

The argument is if he's a more than handy guy to have in a three man attack.

Anderson/Broad/Starc is clearly better than Anderson/Broad/any pom they've picked in the last 5 years

The same applies to every other countries current bowling line up. Starc in there somewhere would make it clearly more potent.

The only quibble might be around SA and on the assumption that Steyn/Philander/Rabada are all available (which hasn't happened a lot in the last two years). Then I don't think too many aren't saying that Starc would be in a fight for 4th seamer with Morkel.

So please enough of the straw man garbage. Starc isn't the second coming of Christ, but he's a damn solid Test bowler who would struggle to get a game in very few Test teams in history.

What strawman? I was replying to the assertions made in this post

Anderson is the only quick that England would pick over Starc IMO.

Starc would walk into any side in the world. Who wouldn't take a 150kph left arm quick? Even South Africa would make room for him IMO. Because despite his erratic-at-times bowling he takes a crap ton of wickets all around the world at a pretty good average. He's the ideal 3rd seamer.

As I'm sure you're aware, SA do not play a 4 man pace attack so I don't know why Morkel is even up for discussion considering Steyn is currently fit. As for only Anderson getting ahead of Starc, that is also incorrect because Broad most certainly gets in ahead of him. Obviously Starc makes it comfortably as the 3rd seamer.

Which part of my post is a strawman?

 

[Top_Cat]

^^^ wot he said. The selection that made Michael Beer look like a solid pick (although tbf to Bryce he didn't exactly get chucked in on a raging turner)

Not to mention shoulder surgery only months before.

 

[TNT]

So my team being utter garbage prohibits my having an opinion on another team? I'm first and foremost a fan of test cricket you have to remember and watch a lot of test cricket involving teams other than England, during which I'm neutral. Heck, I was supporting the Windies (v England) last summer. I wanted them to pick up that test, when Root gave a generous declaration!

Australia is beating your team, you put it down to your team being rubbish, not Australia being good but your team being rubbish.

England have their all time best opener, all time best bowler, soon to be best ever batsman, one of their best ever keeper batsmen, best ever n7 batsman, one of their best ever bowlers and they are rubbish.

Cook, Anderson, Broad, Moeen, Bairstow and Root are rubbish.

 

[Spark]

So my team being utter garbage prohibits my having an opinion on another team? I'm first and foremost a fan of test cricket you have to remember and watch a lot of test cricket involving teams other than England, during which I'm neutral. Heck, I was supporting the Windies (v England) last summer. I wanted them to pick up that test, when Root gave a generous declaration!

Why are you doing this to yourself

 

[Starfighter]

Australia is beating your team, you put it down to your team being rubbish, not Australia being good but your team being rubbish.

England have their all time best opener, all time best bowler, soon to be best ever batsman, one of their best ever keeper batsmen, best ever n7 batsman, one of their best ever bowlers and they are rubbish.

Cook, Anderson, Broad, Moeen, Bairstow and Root are rubbish.

Cook hasn't scored consistent runs for ages and has failed in two of three completed Australian tours.

Anderson and Broad are less effective overseas - this is not a revelation - and have bowled well, although slightly too short, and have had insufficient backing from the third seamer, spinner and batsmen.

Root has a clear technical problem at the moment and also a conversion issue that is well known.

Bairstow is also less less effective overseas and has been batting out of position for no reason whatsoever, which has not helped him.

Ali is also worse overseas and is batting too high for the method he is employing and his bowling is no match for Lyon's, which is greatly easing the pressure on the Australian batsmen.

The England team overall is simply not a cohesive unit.

Try actually watching the matches and seeing what is happening before jumping to the conclusion that because this England side has some good players they are not rubbish as a team when they quite clearly are.

 

[TNT]

Cook hasn't scored consistent runs for ages and has failed in two of three completed Australian tours.

Anderson and Broad are less effective overseas - this is not a revelation - and have bowled well, although slightly too short, and have had insufficient backing from the third seamer, spinner and batsmen.

Root has a clear technical problem at the moment and also a conversion issue that is well known.

Bairstow is also less less effective overseas and has been batting out of position for no reason whatsoever, which has not helped him.

Ali is also worse overseas and is batting too high for the method he is employing and his bowling is no match for Lyon's, which is greatly easing the pressure on the Australian batsmen.

The England team overall is simply not a cohesive unit.

Try actually watching the matches and seeing what is happening before jumping to the conclusion that because this England side has some good players they are not rubbish as a team when they quite clearly are.

I have been watching the series, Australia have played better than England, Australia have played some good cricket.

England have been out played by a better team, why lower yourself to slagging off a team that is better than yours.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Australia is beating your team, you put it down to your team being rubbish, not Australia being good but your team being rubbish.

England have their all time best opener, all time best bowler, soon to be best ever batsman, one of their best ever keeper batsmen, best ever n7 batsman, one of their best ever bowlers and they are rubbish.

Cook, Anderson, Broad, Moeen, Bairstow and Root are rubbish.

Well now you've moved the goalposts! But picking up that point I'll credit (and believe I have done so) the Australian bowling - especially Lyon who has been outstanding and Cummins, but I cannot but see two incredibly poor batting line-ups. There are two innings there (S. Smith at the Gabba and S. Marsh, Adelaide) difference in batting between the two. In the combined team thread, I struggled - I struggled greatly to create a full team sheet! I mean guys like Cook and Warner were basically being selected on a combination of previous form and ''just doing enough''. Do you want me to lie and pretend Handscomb is ''good''?

 

[TNT]

Well now you've moved the goalposts! But picking up that point I'll credit (and believe I have done so) the Australian bowling - especially Lyon who has been outstanding and Cummins, but I cannot but see two incredibly poor batting line-ups. There are two innings there (S. Smith at the Gabba and S. Marsh, Adelaide) difference in batting between the two. In the combined team thread, I struggled - I struggled greatly to create a full team sheet!

Australia have only had 3 innings so far, bit early to dismiss players after only three innings even though Warner, Smith, Marsh and Bancroft have put in some good innings. Starc has been outstanding, I know its easy to sit in your lounge chair and say he is bowling rubbish but its slightly different when you are out in the middle and 150+kmh balls are coming at you. The batsmen are not gifting him wickets, they are being beaten by speed and bounce, that's why he is better than the English bowlers.

 

[ImpatientLime]

my favourite bit was when cook got described as englands all time best opener.

a country that produced grace, hobbs, sutcliffe, hutton, boycott, gooch.

lol lovely patter.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Australia have only had 3 innings so far, bit early to dismiss players after only three innings even though Warner, Smith, Marsh and Bancroft have put in some good innings. Starc has been outstanding, I know its easy to sit in your lounge chair and say he is bowling rubbish but its slightly different when you are out in the middle and 150+kmh balls are coming at you. The batsmen are not gifting him wickets, they are being beaten by speed and bounce, that's why he is better than the English bowlers.

Well I've been more impressed with Cummins/Lyon than the other pair.

 

[Victor Ian]

...England have their all time best opener (nup - just most runs), all time best bowler (nup - just most wickets), soon to be best ever batsman (seriously nup), one of their best ever keeper batsmen(probably nup),
Cook, Anderson, Broad, Moeen, Bairstow and Root are rubbish. (nup)

They are good players. No need to overdo it. Australia is a tough tour just as England is for Australia.

 

[JRC67]

Cook hasn't scored consistent runs for ages and has failed in two of three completed Australian tours.

Anderson and Broad are less effective overseas - this is not a revelation - and have bowled well, although slightly too short, and have had insufficient backing from the third seamer, spinner and batsmen.

Root has a clear technical problem at the moment and also a conversion issue that is well known.

Bairstow is also less less effective overseas and has been batting out of position for no reason whatsoever, which has not helped him.

Ali is also worse overseas and is batting too high for the method he is employing and his bowling is no match for Lyon's, which is greatly easing the pressure on the Australian batsmen.

The England team overall is simply not a cohesive unit.

Try actually watching the matches and seeing what is happening before jumping to the conclusion that because this England side has some good players they are not rubbish as a team when they quite clearly are.

The real issue for England is the 6 players are probably the only ones remotely of test quality at the moment and 3 are in the final stages of their careers. Australia are currently a team whose bowling is on the up. They also have an exceptional batsman in Smith and a couple of decent batsmen in the squad.

I wouldn't say we are rubbish but we also aren't the best team in the world.