***Official*** English Football Season 2017/18

[Ikki]

Mo'vember baby!

 

[Cabinet96]

On Özil, I find it so annoying when people start talking about him like he's some scrub. There's genuine debate to be had about some of the tactical constraints of playing him, but the idea he doesn't significantly improve Arsenal in 90% of games we play is just nonsense.

 

[Uppercut]

On Özil, I find it so annoying when people start talking about him like he's some scrub. There's genuine debate to be had about some of the tactical constraints of playing him, but the idea he doesn't significantly improve Arsenal in 90% of games we play is just nonsense.

So there's a real tendency to talk about what Arsenal players aren't rather than what they are. Ozil is easily in the world's top 5 most creative players but everyone talks about his half-arsed pressing; Giroud constantly bangs in goals against deep defences but his defining feature for most of his Arsenal career has been not being Luis Suarez; Sanchez is brilliant at basically everything but gets **** for looking grumpy. Happened with loads of good-but-not-great players like Mert, Walcott etc., I remember Fabregas getting **** for not being Vieira.

I think it's two things. First, they didn't win any CLs or titles. It's a stick to beat players with generally, but winning big stuff is also reputation-affirming indirectly, because something like a last-minute Walcott winner gets spun into this narrative of overcoming doubters, doing it under pressure etc. Late winners in unsuccessful seasons are totally forgotten. Second, Wenger's iffy tactical choices often expose his players' weaknesses. So Conte plays Fabregas with Kante+Bakayoko or Pirlo with Vidal+Marchisio and everyone comes away from a big game talking about their amazing passing. But Wenger plays Xhaka in a 2 with Ramsay behind Ozil and the whole game is just Salah Mane and Firmino running past him and all anyone talks about afterwards is how immobile and ill-disciplined he is. Then it sticks. You used to get stuff like Giroud starting at Chelsea because he scored 9 against Aston Villa the previous week or Coquelin starting at home to Swansea cos he did a good job on David Silva the week before, and what they aren't good at is really painfully exposed.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Everton still the only team to have taken points off City. So odd.

 

[Furball]

On Özil, I find it so annoying when people start talking about him like he's some scrub. There's genuine debate to be had about some of the tactical constraints of playing him, but the idea he doesn't significantly improve Arsenal in 90% of games we play is just nonsense.

The thing that bugs me most is the way he's pigeon holed as lazy. The guy's movement is first class and he's on the move constantly trying to pull apart defences.

 

[Furball]

It's quite funny that de Bruyne and Salah should really be tearing things up in a Chelsea shirt were it not for Mourinho deciding to punt them.

 

[sledger]

So there's a real tendency to talk about what Arsenal players aren't rather than what they are. Ozil is easily in the world's top 5 most creative players but everyone talks about his half-arsed pressing; Giroud constantly bangs in goals against deep defences but his defining feature for most of his Arsenal career has been not being Luis Suarez; Sanchez is brilliant at basically everything but gets **** for looking grumpy. Happened with loads of good-but-not-great players like Mert, Walcott etc., I remember Fabregas getting **** for not being Vieira.

I think it's two things. First, they didn't win any CLs or titles. It's a stick to beat players with generally, but winning big stuff is also reputation-affirming indirectly, because something like a last-minute Walcott winner gets spun into this narrative of overcoming doubters, doing it under pressure etc. Late winners in unsuccessful seasons are totally forgotten. Second, Wenger's iffy tactical choices often expose his players' weaknesses. So Conte plays Fabregas with Kante+Bakayoko or Pirlo with Vidal+Marchisio and everyone comes away from a big game talking about their amazing passing. But Wenger plays Xhaka in a 2 with Ramsay behind Ozil and the whole game is just Salah Mane and Firmino running past him and all anyone talks about afterwards is how immobile and ill-disciplined he is. Then it sticks. You used to get stuff like Giroud starting at Chelsea because he scored 9 against Aston Villa the previous week or Coquelin starting at home to Swansea cos he did a good job on David Silva the week before, and what they aren't good at is really painfully exposed.

Yeah, I think this is mostly correct.

If Ozil joins Utd and performs in exactly the same way has done for Arsenal for the last few years I doubt there will be much moaning from the usual Savages and Murphys of this world. .

 

[sledger]

The thing that bugs me most is the way he's pigeon holed as lazy. The guy's movement is first class and he's on the move constantly trying to pull apart defences.

The thing is, even if this wasn't true, and he genuinely was lazy, who the **** even cares? You don't buy a player like Mesut ****ing Ozil to have him run around like a headless chicken kicking people. He's a bloody specialist who is one of the best in the world at what he does. You wouldn't buy Manuel Neuer and stick him up front and then complain how **** he was.

 

[Cabinet96]

So there's a real tendency to talk about what Arsenal players aren't rather than what they are. Ozil is easily in the world's top 5 most creative players but everyone talks about his half-arsed pressing; Giroud constantly bangs in goals against deep defences but his defining feature for most of his Arsenal career has been not being Luis Suarez; Sanchez is brilliant at basically everything but gets **** for looking grumpy. Happened with loads of good-but-not-great players like Mert, Walcott etc., I remember Fabregas getting **** for not being Vieira.

I think it's two things. First, they didn't win any CLs or titles. It's a stick to beat players with generally, but winning big stuff is also reputation-affirming indirectly, because something like a last-minute Walcott winner gets spun into this narrative of overcoming doubters, doing it under pressure etc. Late winners in unsuccessful seasons are totally forgotten. Second, Wenger's iffy tactical choices often expose his players' weaknesses. So Conte plays Fabregas with Kante+Bakayoko or Pirlo with Vidal+Marchisio and everyone comes away from a big game talking about their amazing passing. But Wenger plays Xhaka in a 2 with Ramsay behind Ozil and the whole game is just Salah Mane and Firmino running past him and all anyone talks about afterwards is how immobile and ill-disciplined he is. Then it sticks. You used to get stuff like Giroud starting at Chelsea because he scored 9 against Aston Villa the previous week or Coquelin starting at home to Swansea cos he did a good job on David Silva the week before, and what they aren't good at is really painfully exposed.

Agree with everything. The second paragraph is basically why I was arguing that a full strength Arsenal XI is superior to a full strength Spurs XI the other day. Pochettino is basically the opposite in building systems that get the very best out of his player's strengths. But I also accept the majority of non Arsenal fans will think I'm deluded when I say our players are on par with or better than other big six teams, or hype up individuals.

Think our big game record can also be added in the same mention of no league or CL titles. Basically all of Özil's creative and passing stats are comparable to De Bruyne's this season and some have even been better (not saying he's been as good, just pointing it out) but De Bruyne smashing it into the top corner from 20 yards at Stamford Bridge will be remembered by basically every football fan for years; only diehard Arsenal fans remember Özil tearing apart Bournemouth two years ago.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah, I think this is mostly correct.

If Ozil joins Utd and performs in exactly the same way has done for Arsenal for the last few years I doubt there will be much moaning from the usual Savage's and Murphy's of this world. .

Yeah the prospect of this is absolutely killing me. Bloke will perform the exact same (this is basically guaranteed, his consistency over long periods is actually really good and he's incapable of changing as a player) but people will decide to look at all the things he does well instead of the things he does badly, and use it as a stick to beat Wenger with while crediting Mourinho.

 

[sledger]

Yeah the prospect of this is absolutely killing me. Bloke will perform the exact same (this is basically guaranteed, his consistency over long periods is actually really good and he's incapable of changing as a player) but people will decide to look at all the things he does well instead of the things he does badly, and use it as a stick to beat Wenger with while crediting Mourinho.

Yeah, inevitable I suspect.

 

[vcs]

Rooney's goal was brilliant.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Rooney's goal was brilliant.

Ozil wouldn’t have scored it.

 

[sledger]

Too easy for the mighty Mesut. Wouldn't have lowered himself to the levels of the son of Shrek.

 

[Cabinet96]

He'd have done the same thing, but with his technique of hitting it into the ground first.

Rooney has quite the collection of spectacular Premier League goals though. I guess it's to be expected when you've scored over 200, but still impressive.

 

[cpr]

He'd have done the same thing, but with his technique of hitting it into the ground first.

Rooney has quite the collection of spectacular Premier League goals though. I guess it's to be expected when you've scored over 200, but still impressive.

Decreases quite a bit when you take out the ones against mediocre opposition - ie West Ham or Joe Hart

 

[Cow]

Joe Hart is maybe the most overrated footballer in any position I can remember in my lifetime. He is consistently awful everywhere he goes yet somehow manages to keep getting employed.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Everton still the only team to have taken points off City. So odd.

They were tonked in that game and were lucky to hold on, though. Much akin to the Bournemouth, Huddersfield, etc games except that we got a late winner in those.

De Bruyne smashing it into the top corner from 20 yards at Stamford Bridge will be remembered by basically every football fan for years; only diehard Arsenal fans remember Özil tearing apart Bournemouth two years ago.

People will probably also remember that De Bruyne does a truckload of work around the ground that Özil doesn't.

Joe Hart is maybe the most overrated footballer in any position I can remember in my lifetime. He is consistently awful everywhere he goes yet somehow manages to keep getting employed.

He was genuinely awesome for 2 seasons at City from his breakout game against Spurs in the season opener in 2010 until the end of the title season. He was still prone to a flap here or there but he was an elite stopper. From that point onward though he just lost it. Gets beaten at his near post to his left every time you shoot there.

 

[Furball]

Rooney's goal was brilliant.

It's not the best goal ever though. For long range efforts I'd go with Charlie Adam's goal against Chelsea a few years ago.

 

[Uppercut]

My personal favourite is Stankovic for the importance of the game and the beautiful technique.