A. Border vs S. Waugh - who was the greater Cricketer ?

[subshakerz]

I can understand Border ahead as a captain, but still waiting for a good reason why he would be ahead of Waugh as a batsman.

 

[Engle]

I can understand Border ahead as a captain, but still waiting for a good reason why he would be ahead of Waugh as a batsman.

While batting was a fairly close match up, Border edges S.Waugh because :
1. He had a weaker supporting cast
2. Besides batting well at the 5 and 6 position, he also proved himself at the 3 and 4 position, whereas SW was firmly ensconced in the 5 and 6 position.
3. His performance against the '83 W.Indies is legendary
4. He did not play against Zim and B'desh

 

[Burgey]

Hennybogan’s lengthy ban is a worthy illustration of what happens to all those who post against TOTAB’s unique greatness. You have all be warned.

 

[cnerd123]

Hennybogan’s lengthy ban is a worthy illustration of what happens to all those who post against TOTAB’s unique greatness. You have all be warned.

he can't be that great if he can't even hold on to his own nickname now can he

 

[Burgey]

Stick to the six a side stuff mate.

 

[Burgey]

Which, tbf, TOTAB would dominate.

 

[Zinzan]

Border for me, but not by the margin some are suggesting.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tempted to vote Waugh since he had the guts to drop arguably the greatest spinner ever for the deciding test in a big test series. But still went for Burgey's man in the end.

 

[cnerd123]

Which, tbf, TOTAB would dominate.

Reckon Waugh would be the significantly superior Sixes player.

 

[Daemon]

For those who missed out on Border's greatness, would it be fair to say Misbah was Border-lite?

 

[wpdavid]

I can't believe some folks are seriously suggesting that Waugh's the better captain due to his superior win/loss ratio.

Apart from ignoring the players at their disposal, it does rather ignore the fact that Border captained against peak or damned close to peak WI, something which Waugh never encountered. or came close to encountering.

Granted it's a much tougher call wrt batting, as both of them regularly pissed me off no end.

 

[srbhkshk]

Apart from ignoring the players at their disposal, it does rather ignore the fact that Border captained against peak or damned close to peak WI, something which Waugh never encountered. or came close to encountering.

But it's not Waugh's fault that he had a great side. He was just as gritty a character and I think he would compare well enough to Border if he had to go through what Border did.

Why are people continuously undermining Waugh for having a superior team? I mean that would make sense if Waugh captained a great team and got results not particularly better than Border. But it's not as if he achieved average results with them. He was the Captain of a side which is arguably among the top 3 in cricket history.

 

[Engle]

For those who missed out on Border's greatness, would it be fair to say Misbah was Border-lite?

Perhaps a bit too lite. There were a few similarities such as a unifying force. But the intensity and toughness was a tad short.

A closer comparison would be to Imran Khan.
Really, which Board would throw the captaincy to a fast bowler, much less one who could bat as well - as if he does not have enough of a workload.
Similarly, which Board would throw the captaincy to a grump - one who had no leadership aspirations.

But desperate circumstances calls for desperate moves. That they succeeded so well, left many an independent observer bewildered.
They were both tough, team-minded and led from the front.

 

[Daemon]

But it's not Waugh's fault that he had a great side. He was just as gritty a character and I think he would compare well enough to Border if he had to go through what Border did.

Why are people continuously undermining Waugh for having a superior team? I mean that would make sense if Waugh captained a great team and got results not particularly better than Border. But it's not as if he achieved average results with them. He was the Captain of a side which is arguably among the top 3 in cricket history.

Don't think people are undermining Waugh for that reason. They were using that a a reason to dismiss the win/loss stat.

 

[srbhkshk]

Don't think people are undermining Waugh for that reason. They were using that a a reason to dismiss the win/loss stat.

But the majority says he was the better captain even though those two had totally different exams in front of them and Waugh aced his as well as anyone can hope to.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah, as a kid I just remember thinking Australia would win every single match. I got a little bored by the end, they were so dominant. I was pretty excited when NZ pushed them the distance in 2002 or whatever.

Your hero scoring 120* in a knockout(for Aus) WC game when you're 8 years old pretty much elevates him to best player ever in your mind. It's hard for me to look at Steve Waugh objectively, but to me he was one of the best captains our country ever had

 

[Engle]

But the majority says he was the better captain even though those two had totally different exams in front of them and Waugh aced his as well as anyone can hope to.

Border had the tougher exam. And he did not just ace the exam, he revitalized the university.

 

[subshakerz]

I think people are giving perhaps too much credit to Border's captaincy here. Yes, he stopped the rot of Australia losing badly and gave the team grit. But he was known as fairly conservative a captain overall even if he commanded total respect of the team. Perhaps the conservatism was the need of the day.

I rate Taylor higher. He commanded respect but was aggressive and innovative at the same time. His victories in South Africa, West Indies and Pakistan were all against top quality side in their home conditions. Like Border, he took where his team was and made them a better team.

Steve Waugh did similar. His side was truly dominant but I felt he benefited from weaker opposition too. But the main accusation against him was being rather unimaginative in the field but things were not going his way. I still dont know how you can have an attack as great as his and let an opposition team bat an entire day as in Calcutta 2001. Or fail to defend 300 plus score on three occasions.

Scorecard - 1998-1999 Frank Worrell Trophy - 26/03/1999
Scorecard - 2001-2002 South Africa v Australia - 15/03/2002
Scorecard - 2002-2003 Frank Worrell Trophy - 09/05/2003

 

[Slifer]

Tbh, border really should've beaten the wi i 92/93 but for adelaide. That being said , i saw much more of steve than ab. Of all the cricketers from the 90s, none was more a thorn in our side (im from the wi btw) than steven waugh (mcgrath as well). So I'd give him the edge in terms of pure cricketing ability: batting, bowling, fielding. I don't consider captaincy a cricketing ability.

 

[Zinzan]

I think people are giving perhaps too much credit to Border's captaincy here. Yes, he stopped the rot of Australia losing badly and gave the team grit. But he was known as fairly conservative a captain overall even if he commanded total respect of the team. Perhaps the conservatism was the need of the day.

I rate Taylor higher. He commanded respect but was aggressive and innovative at the same time. His victories in South Africa, West Indies and Pakistan were all against top quality side in their home conditions. Like Border, he took where his team was and made them a better team.

Not sure what Taylor has to do with the Waugh vs. Border question. Think most would agree, he was the best skipper of the 3.