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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Symonds fast making a case for most overrated player. He was good but in all time great circles he’s a bits and pieces player and nowhere near the all time first team.
Just further on this, if I pick Symonds, it's primarily as a #6 batsman in a team with a keeper in the top 6 and 5 other frontline bowlers from 7-11. Symonds would not be expected to bowl a full quota.

I am picking him based on his batting power, and his fielding (which is the best I've seen in ODIs). His bowling, if required, is nothing more than a handy extra.
 

JBMAC

State Captain
It's simple for me:

Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds
Kapil
Wasim
Garner
Murali
McGrath

Jayasuriya
Watson
Ponting
Lara
Dhoni
Hussey
Klusener
Warne
Starc
Ambrose
Donald
Don't you feel Michael Bevan should be one of those sides?
 

CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
Also, people rating Kohli and AB over Sachin, Ponting or even Viv must consider the era that they played in instead of pure stats. If it wasn't for the T20 era, Sachin would have never got a 200 in ODIs.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Just further on this, if I pick Symonds, it's primarily as a #6 batsman in a team with a keeper in the top 6 and 5 other frontline bowlers from 7-11. Symonds would not be expected to bowl a full quota.

I am picking him based on his batting power, and his fielding (which is the best I've seen in ODIs). His bowling, if required, is nothing more than a handy extra.
So like I said then, a bits and pieces player. There’s so many better batsmen around then him it’s a joke to even consider him as one of the best middle order players ever.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
So like I said then, a bits and pieces player. There’s so many better batsmen around then him it’s a joke to even consider him as one of the best middle order players ever.
He averaged 40 at a SR of over 90. He is literally the perfect guy to have come in with 10-15 overs left.

Really struggle to see why you’d find that so objectionable as a selection tbh.

Being an entire package doesn’t make him bits and pieces.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Also Watson > Kapil

Symonds at 6 is fine if you pair that with Watson at 7 (or the other way around), and not Kapil at 7.
 

watson

Banned
A spot should be made for Shaun Pollock - a Top 5 ATG ODI bowler and successful batsman at No.7 or 8 with a decent average plus a SR of 87. Much preferred over Klusener who was a bit of a one-hit-wonder IMO.
 

watson

Banned
What I want to know is if Shakib al Hasan is the best ODI spin-bowler-allrounder ever?

If he is then why not end the Murali-Warne fetish and pick 4 miserly pace bowler who are all capable of blowing the opposition away?


01. Adam Gilchrist
02. Sachin Tendulkar
03. Virat Kohli
04. Viv Richards
05. AB de Villiers
06. Michael Bevan
07. Shakib al Hasan
08. Richard Hadlee
09. Wasim Akram
10. Joel Garner
11. Glenn McGrath

Bats down to No.9 as well.


01. Matthew Hayden
02. Mark Waugh
03. Ricky Ponting
04. Brian Lara
05. Andrew Symonds
06. MS Dhoni
07. Kapil Dev
08. Shaun Pollock
09. Shane Warne
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Allan Donald
 
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Tom Flint

International Regular
Kallis doesnt get in because his strike rate is only 72 yet bevan is seen as some sort of odi god with his strike rate of 74. They couldnt have been chasing in every game he played in
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Kallis doesnt get in because his strike rate is only 72 yet bevan is seen as some sort of odi god with his strike rate of 74. They couldnt have been chasing in every game he played in
Kallis had a sr of 73 in the 1st innings whereas Bevan's was 80. And this is despite Kallis playing ODIs in the T20 era when scoring rates have shot up in a big way compared to the 90s.
 

CapeTown Guy

School Boy/Girl Captain
My lasting memories of Kallis as an ODI player are of him coming in after Smith had got SA off to a cracking start chasing 350 in a WC game against Australia and batting for a draw.

It's hard to think he belongs anywhere near an AT side when that's what you remember.

Kallis' biggest problem was that he didn't have that extra gear that most other great players did.
I agree that JK sometimes struggled to accelerate the innings, but I think you are doing him a disservice in saying he 'batted for a draw'. I presume this is the game you are referring to?

I remember the game well. Our bowlers got absolutely carted around, Pollock went wicketless for 80odd. Then our openers, predominantly AB, got us off to a great start, before he was run out thanks to a Shane Watson direct hit from the fence. Kallis came in, and wickets started falling all around him as our innings was snuffed out. Also, 48 off 63 might not be quick enough when you are chasing near 380, but its hardly batting for a draw.
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I agree that JK sometimes struggled to accelerate the innings, but I think you are doing him a disservice in saying he 'batted for a draw'. I presume this is the game you are referring to?

I remember the game well. Our bowlers got absolutely carted around, Pollock went wicketless for 80odd. Then our openers, predominantly AB, got us off to a great start, before he was run out thanks to a Shane Watson direct hit from the fence. Kallis came in, and wickets started falling all around him as our innings was snuffed out. Also, 48 off 63 might not be quick enough when you are chasing near 380, but its hardly batting for a draw.
Ponting used that game to get into SA's heads so well. Called Kallis a slow poke and SA a team that lacked aggression. Then in the semifinal, as if their sole purpose was to prove Ponting wrong their entire batting lineup, Kallis included, tried to score at 12 runs per over and got rolled for 150 odd. Top class mind games.
 

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