A. Border vs S. Waugh - who was the greater Cricketer ?

[Anil]

border fairly comfortably and that is saying something given what a great cricketer waugh was...

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Yeah, it's testament to Waugh how often he's put in the class with Border because he was the pupil to Border.
Border however was the next level, and probably became so because of the era he was in. If the roles were reversed I wonder would Waugh have had that ability to dig the aussies out of trouble time and again, to be an uncompromising leader, to take the brunt of the hard overs from some of the best bowlers of all time at their peak? I think Waugh would have been able to, but not to the same level.

 

[Hennybogan]

Steve Waugh easily, lol at Border being best post war.

 

[Burgey]

Border is easily the greatest Australian cricketer since Bradman. No one did more as a batsman and captain than he did, nor did anyone do it for as long or in as difficult a time. He healed the post-WSC wounds and inherited a team in the wake of the retirement of Lillee, Chappell and Marsh then a number of his most experienced players ****ed off on a rebel tour. Every good thing in Australian Cricket from 1987 onwards stems from the side he built in his own image. He’s the closest thing to god in human form.

 

[Hennybogan]

cackle

 

[Engle]

Border is easily the greatest Australian cricketer since Bradman. No one did more as a batsman and captain than he did, nor did anyone do it for as long or in as difficult a time. He healed the post-WSC wounds and inherited a team in the wake of the retirement of Lillee, Chappell and Marsh then a number of his most experienced players ****ed off on a rebel tour. Every good thing in Australian Cricket from 1987 onwards stems from the side he built in his own image. He’s the closest thing to god in human form.

Very true. The context behind the numbers are sometimes not given due credit in rankings of great cricketers.

 

[Hennybogan]

Talking out of your a55, Border wasnt good enough to tie up Greg Chappell’s shoelaces.

 

[Red]

Talking out of your a55, Border wasnt good enough to tie up Greg Chappell’s shoelaces.

Perhaps not as a batsman, but he was a far better leader.

 

[Hennybogan]

Nah Border lost way more than he won, I’d rate both Chappell’s better captains especially Ian.

 

[Red]

Nah Border lost way more than he won, I’d rate both Chappell’s better captains especially Ian.

Who mentioned Ian?

 

[Hennybogan]

I’m reading above that no one did more as a batsman or captain since Bradman. Absolute hogwash.

 

[Red]

I’m reading above that no one did more as a batsman or captain since Bradman. Absolute hogwash.

It’s not if you understand the context that the comment was made in.

 

[burr]

I have a ridiculous love for AB. Having said that, if my life depended on it, I'd probably pick Tugga. Maybe... Jesus, it'd be a tough choice.

 

[Burgey]

I’m reading above that no one did more as a batsman or captain since Bradman. Absolute hogwash.

No one did. GC picked and chose his tours, Chappelli captained for all of five years. Benaud a decent shout as skipper but obviously not with the bat. Waugh inherited a team already number one, Taylor isn’t in the frame as a batsman compared to Waugh or Border.

 

[Hennybogan]

Nah, Chappell was a better bat and had a much better record as captain, stats wise Border was awful as a captain. Sure he had a weak team for a few years but even from 87 with a better team he has a relatively poor record as a captain. No need to mention other captains records being better, most were. Believe what you want.

 

[Red]

Nah, Chappell was a better bat and had a much better record as captain, stats wise Border was awful as a captain. Sure he had a weak team for a few years but even from 87 with a better team he has a relatively poor record as a captain. No need to mention other captains records being better, most were. Believe what you want.

If you want to make this conversation about the captain with the best statistical record regarding wins and losses, then sure, Border isn't that guy. Clearly Taylor, Waugh, Ponting and the Chappells had better win percentages than Border over the duration of their captaincies. Everyone here knows that.

The point being made is that Border did more for Australian cricket than almost any other player. When he took over the team in 84/85 (and he didn't even want to, mind you), it was a shambles. Hughes had resigned as captain in tears over all the **** that had gone on during WSC and because of bullying by other team-mates. Great cricketers had retired the year before (Lillee, GChappell and Marsh) and guys like Ian Chappell and Doug Walters had gone a few years previously, creating a huge leadership vacuum. Thommo was a spent force. There wasn't much in the tank, in terms of great cricketers.

Then on top of that all the crap went on with the SA rebel tours behind closed doors, and a bunch of blokes like Yallop, Rixon, Wellham, Phillips, Alderman, Rackemann and Hogg were all banned from FC and tests for a while.

Border is bought into this ****-storm as captain, to face, guess who initially? Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Richards, Gomes, Lloyd, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Garner, Walsh. And in his third test, he managed to roll them on the back of his and Wessell's batting, and the spin bowling of Bennett and Holland. Basically with a team of nobodies.

Time goes on and Simpson comes in as coach. They decide to train hard, and to take it very seriously. They decide to bring in players who have ability, but more importantly have character and aptitude to form a winning team. Marsh, Boon, SWaugh, McDermott at the start. Border slowly guides the side towards his goal, from one of the most mediocre Australia have produced when he became captain, to one capable of beating anyone.

Come the 1989 Ashes and we absolutely dominate. This moment is peak Border. He has moulded a team in his image. Hard blokes prepared to grind out wins. Make big scores, let the bowlers do their work. This will always be Border's team in my mind: Taylor, Marsh, Boon, Border, Jones, Waugh, Healy, Hughes, Hohns, Lawson, Alderman. Each and every one dependable to do their role. Capable and trustworthy on the field.

The success continued afterwards. Taylor in the WIs in 95, beating them at home for the first time in how long? Steve Waugh's run of consecutive wins, ruthless and dominant. All this was built on the back of Border's work in the mid to late 80s.

Hail the great man.

 

[Engle]

Paraphrasing : " Greatness is not what you achieve while you're in power. It's what you leave behind when you're gone ".

Look at what AB inherited. And what he left behind when he retired.

 

[Gob]

Paraphrasing : " Greatness is not what you achieve while you're in power. It's what you leave behind when you're gone ".

Look at what AB inherited. And what he left behind when he retired.

He is still going strong

 

[cnerd123]

If you want to make this conversation about the captain with the best statistical record regarding wins and losses, then sure, Border isn't that guy. Clearly Taylor, Waugh, Ponting and the Chappells had better win percentages than Border over the duration of their captaincies. Everyone here knows that.

The point being made is that Border did more for Australian cricket than almost any other player. When he took over the team in 84/85 (and he didn't even want to, mind you), it was a shambles. Hughes had resigned as captain in tears over all the **** that had gone on during WSC and because of bullying by other team-mates. Great cricketers had retired the year before (Lillee, GChappell and Marsh) and guys like Ian Chappell and Doug Walters had gone a few years previously, creating a huge leadership vacuum. Thommo was a spent force. There wasn't much in the tank, in terms of great cricketers.

Then on top of that all the crap went on with the SA rebel tours behind closed doors, and a bunch of blokes like Yallop, Rixon, Wellham, Phillips, Alderman, Rackemann and Hogg were all banned from FC and tests for a while.

Border is bought into this ****-storm as captain, to face, guess who initially? Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Richards, Gomes, Lloyd, Dujon, Marshall, Holding, Garner, Walsh. And in his third test, he managed to roll them on the back of his and Wessell's batting, and the spin bowling of Bennett and Holland. Basically with a team of nobodies.

Time goes on and Simpson comes in as coach. They decide to train hard, and to take it very seriously. They decide to bring in players who have ability, but more importantly have character and aptitude to form a winning team. Marsh, Boon, SWaugh, McDermott at the start. Border slowly guides the side towards his goal, from one of the most mediocre Australia have produced when he became captain, to one capable of beating anyone.

Come the 1989 Ashes and we absolutely dominate. This moment is peak Border. He has moulded a team in his image. Hard blokes prepared to grind out wins. Make big scores, let the bowlers do their work. This will always be Border's team in my mind: Taylor, Marsh, Boon, Border, Jones, Waugh, Healy, Hughes, Hohns, Lawson, Alderman. Each and every one dependable to do their role. Capable and trustworthy on the field.

The success continued afterwards. Taylor in the WIs in 95, beating them at home for the first time in how long? Steve Waugh's run of consecutive wins, ruthless and dominant. All this was built on the back of Border's work in the mid to late 80s.

Hail the great man.

TLDR - My account was hacked by Burgey. I'm being held hostage. Send help.

 

[Burgey]

***** finally making sense