The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[stephen]

With Ireland and Afghanistan in with test status, that makes 12 test playing nations. What's the best ATG test XII you can make if you have to use one player from each nation?

It's probably easier to pick the best players from the weaker nations first. That means Shakib goes in from Bangladesh. From Afghanistan we take the batsman Rahmat Shah, and from Scotland, Kyle Coetzer.

Moving through, the next obvious pick is Hadlee from NZ. While Crowe and Williamson and some other older day batsmen might stake a claim, Hadlee is as good a quick as ever had been, and he adds all-round depth to the XII.

Obviously from Australia we will take Bradman, which is a real no brainer. Seems obvious to take one of the great English openers as that's what they produce best. Len Hutton is my choice but it could be Hobbs.

Imran or Wasim from Pakistan seem logical, either would be fine. In this scenario, I'll have Imran.

So far:

Hutton
Koetzer
Bradman
-
-
-
Imran
Shakib
Hadlee
-
-


Garry Sobers seems the next logical choice. So he slots in to the line up as a batting AR. In order to complete the bowling attack, I'll take Steyn from SA, giving us:

Hutton
Koetzer
Bradman
-
Sobers
-
-
Imran
Shakib
Hadlee
Steyn

At this point it seems logical to pick Andy Flower from Zim at #5 and to keep, and Sachin from India to complete the batting line up, while picking Murali (SL) as the first choice spinner to complete the bowling attack:




Hutton
Koetzer
Bradman
Tendulkar
Flower +
Sobers
Imran
Shakib
Hadlee
Steyn
Murali
12th - Shah

That's a very fine team.

It's a shade weaker on the batting than some all time sides but the bowling is top notch.

 

[Red]

Why pick from Scotland though?

good observation!

 

[Howe_zat]

Picking Rahmat Shah is silly when Rashid Khan might actually be the best legspinner in the world right now. Since I've then got two spinners I'll swap Murali for Sangakkara and play Marshall for Sobers.

Ireland's best player has probably been Trent Johnston so I'll save him for twelfers

Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman
Kumar Sangakkara
Jacques Kallis
Andy Flower+
Shakib Al Hasan
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Rashid Khan

Trent Johnston

 

[honestbharani]

If you just want a 12th man, why not pick Eoin Morgan? Someone who is a brilliant fielder.

 

[a massive zebra]

If you just want a 12th man, why not pick Eoin Morgan? Someone who is a brilliant fielder.

Because he has shown himself to be a treacherous soul and a slave to the wage by throwing in his lot with England?

 

[a massive zebra]

A few all time XIs for international teams that have not played Tests:

Afghanistan

Noor Ali Zadran
Mohammad Shahzad (wk)
Rahmat Shah
Asghar Stanikzai
Samiullah Shenwari (6)
Mohammad Nabi (c, 5)
Usman Ghani
Gulbadin Naib (3)
Rashid Khan (4)
Dawlat Zadran (1)
Hamid Hassan (2)

America

Nelson Graves
Arthur Wood
John Lester (c, 5)
George Patterson (6)
Francis Bohlen
Bart King (1)
Christy Morris
Frederic Sharpless (wk)
Edward Cregar (3)
Percy Clark (2)
Ranji Hordern (4)

Ireland

William Porterfield (c)
Paul Stirling (7)
Ed Joyce
Niall O'Brien (wk)
Eoin Morgan
Kevin O'Brien (6)
Alex Cusack (5)
Trent Johnston (3)
George Dockrell (4)
Tim Murtagh (2)
Boyd Rankin (1)

Kenya

Kennedy Otieno (wk)
Ravi Shah
Alex Obanda
Steve Tikolo (c, 6)
Maurice Odumbe (5)
Hitesh Modi
Alpesh Vadher
Thomas Odoyo (1)
Nehemiah Odhiambo (3)
Peter Ongondo (2)
Mohammad Sheikh (4)

Netherlands

Eric Szwarczynski
Alexei Kervezee
Tom Cooper (7)
Ryan ten Doeschate (6)
Nolan Clarke
Wesley Barresi (wk)
Roland Lefebvre (c, 2)
Tim de Leede (3)
Mudassar Bukhari (4)
Pieter Seelaar (5)
Andre van Troost (1)

 

[Howe_zat]

Wilson ahead of Cusack for Ireland. I think Kevin O'Brien is actually their top wicket taker so I'm okay with making him the 5th bowler.

 

[jimmy101]

Jimmy Kamande, Collins Obuya & the Suji brothers are a decent shout for Kenya.

Ashish Bagai & Anderson Cummins for 'America' maybe?

 

[a massive zebra]

Wilson ahead of Cusack for Ireland. I think Kevin O'Brien is actually their top wicket taker so I'm okay with making him the 5th bowler.

I'm 50/50 on this. I do agree Wilson would add extra batting depth and by Ireland standards Kevin O'Brien is clearly good enough to be the 5th bowler. My only concern is if one of the frontline bowlers had a bad day, this side has no reliable back up bowling. The only other option, Paul Stirling, averages over 80 in ODIs against Test nations.

 

[watson]

Bought the 'Revised and Updated' 2016 edition of Geoff Armstrong's 'The 100 Greatest Cricketers' recently as an update to my previous tattered 2006 edition

There have been a few notable changes.....

IN
Kumar Sangakkara
MS Dhoni
AB de Villiers
Hashim Amla
Dale Steyn
Graeme Smith
Anil Kumble

OUT
Vijay Hazare
Inzamam ul Haq
Herbie Taylor
Andy Flower
Andrew Flintoff
Bill Lockwood
Arthur Mailey


THE FIRST XI
01. WG Grace
02. Jack Hobbs
03. Don Bradman
04. Graeme Pollock
05. Sachin Tendulkar
06. Garry Sobers
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Imran Khan
09. Malcolm Marshall
10. Shane Warne
11. Sydney Barnes


THE SECOND XI
01. Len Hutton
02. Victor Trumper
03. Kumar Sangakkara
04. Viv Richards
05. Wally Hammond
06. Ian Botham
07. Alan Knott
08. Richard Hadlee
09. Dennis Lillee
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Fred Spofforth


THE THIRD XI
01. Sunil Gavaskar
02. Herbert Sutcliffe
03. Jacques Kallis
04. Greg Chappell
05. Brian Lara
06. Frank Worrell
07. Wasim Akram
08. Jack Blackham
09. George Lohmann
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Glenn McGrath


THE FOURTH XI
01. Archie MacLaren
02. Clyde Walcott
03. George Headley
04. Everton Weekes
05. Allan Border
06. MS Dhoni
07. Kapil Dev
08. Alan Davidson
09. Wilfred Rhodes
10. Jim Laker
11. Curtly Ambrose


THE FIFTH XI
01. Barry Richards
02. Arthur Shrewsbury
03. Denis Compton
04. AB De Villiers
05. Steve Waugh
06. Keith Miller
07. Richie Benaud
08. Godfrey Evans
09. Ray Lindwall
10. Alec Bedser
11. Fred Trueman


THE SIXTH XI
01. Geoff Boycott
02. Virender Sehwag
03. Kumar Shri Ranjitsinhji
04. Hashim Amla
05. Frank Woolley
06. Ricky Ponting
07. Syed Kirmani
08. Harold Larwood
09. Joel Garner
10. Bishan Bedi
11. Bhagwat Chandrasekhar


THE SEVENTH XI
01. Bob Simpson
02. Matthew Hayden
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Javed Miandad
05. Rahul Dravid
06. Les Ames
07. Mike Procter
08. Anil Kumble
09. Andy Roberts
10. Michael Holding
11. Dale Steyn


THE EIGHTH XI
01. Graham Gooch
02. Billy Murdoch
03. Rohan Kanhai
04. Ken Barrington
05. Neil Harvey
06. Monty Noble
07. Johnny Briggs
08. John Snow
09. Wasim Bari
10. Waqar Younis
11. Charles Turner


THE NINTH XI
01. Graeme Smith
02. Stan McCabe
03. Clem Hill
04. Peter May
05. Dudley Nourse
06. Clive Lloyd
07. Ian Healy
08. Fazal Mahmood
09. Hugh Trumble
10. Jeff Thomson
11. Tom Richardson

 

[watson]

Here's my attempt that's a little more more interested in the pragmatic idea of 'winning a modern Test match' rather than the more subjective ideal of 'greatness'. Having said that, I had to include some personal favourites like Lawry, Woolley, Snow, Kirmani and Thommo.

Really wanted to include Arthur Shrewsbury, Charles Turner, Hugh Trumble, Archie Maclaren, Wilfred Rhodes, Fazal Mahmood, Brian Statham, Shaun Pollock, Subhash Gupte, Arthur Mailey, Andy Flower, Mark Waugh, Vijay Merchant, Wes Hall, John Waite, Trevor Goddard etc.......but in a Top 100 you can't have everybody!


THE FIRST XI
01. Len Hutton
02. Jack Hobbs
03. Don Bradman
04. Graeme Pollock
05. Viv Richards *
06. Garry Sobers
07. Adam Gilchrist +
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Sydney Barnes

(Would be the best ever bowling quartet bar none IMO)


THE SECOND XI
01. Sunil Gavaskar
02. Barry Richards
03. Kumar Sangakkara
04. Sachin Tendulkar
05. Brian Lara
06. Jacques Kallis
07. Alan Knott +
08. Imran Khan *
09. Richard Hadlee
10. Wasim Akram
11. Muttiah Muralitharan


THE THIRD XI
01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Herbert Sutcliffe
03. Walter Hammond
04. Greg Chappell
05. Allan Border *
06. Keith Miller
07. Ian Botham
08. Ray Lindwall
09. Bert Oldfield +
10. Clarrie Grimmett
11. Bill O'Reilly


THE FOURTH XI
01. Geoff Boycott
02. Graham Gooch
03. George Headley
04. Neil Harvey
05. Everton Weekes
06. Frank Worrell
07. Richie Benaud *
08. Don Tallon +
09. Alan Davidson
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath


THE FIFTH XI -
01. Bob Simpson
02. Bill Lawry
03. Rohan Kanhai
04. Denis Compton
05. Clyde Walcott
06. WG Grace *
07. Kapil Dev
08. Godfrey Evans +
09. Jim Laker
10. Fred Trueman
11. Dale Steyn


THE SIXTH XI
01. Matthew Hayden
02. Victor Trumper
03. Ricky Ponting
04. Ken Barrington
05. Steve Waugh *
06. Frank Woolley
07. Ian Healy +
08. Anil Kumble
09. Andy Roberts
10. Michael Holding
11. Fred Spofforth


THE SEVENTH XI
01. Graeme Smith *
02. Arthur Morris
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Peter May
05. Javed Miandad
06. Aubrey Faulkner
07. Les Ames +
08. Hedley Verity
09. Harold Larwood
10. George Lohmann
11. Waqar Younis


THE EIGHTH XI
01. Hanif Mohammad
02. Virender Sehwag
03. Kumar Shri Ranjitsinhji
04. Dudley Nourse
05. AB De Villiers
06. Monty Noble *
07. Mike Procter
08. Syed Kirmani +
09. John Snow
10. Derek Underwood
11. Joel Garner


THE NINTH XI
01. Saeed Anwar
02. Eddie Barlow
03. Clem Hill
04. Stan McCabe
05. Rahul Dravid
06. Clive Lloyd *
07. Farokh Engineer +
08. Alec Bedser
09. Hugh Tayfield
10. Jeff Thomson
11. Allan Donald


100th Ted Dexter

 

[srbhkshk]

Dravid too low in both lists imo.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I know this isn't the first time I'm saying this AB de villiers is ridiculously overrated in the test format.

 

[Red]

Sangakkara leaping to first drop in the second XI seems a bit dramatic, essentially saying he was better than GChappell, Hammond and Ponting.

Not saying he is or isn't, but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[Red]

Also, for mine, Miller > Botham: both playing a similar role in a side I'd have Miller every time.

 

[Howe_zat]

Chain Restaraunt XI

Hungry Jack Hobbs
Subwaymin Badrinath
Ian Taco Bell
Basil D'Olivegarden
Tony Greggs*
Craig White Castle
Ben Dunkin Donuts+
Ted McDonalds
Bob Applebees
Reon Burger King
Laxman Sivaramakrishnandos

 

[watson]

Sangakkara leaping to first drop in the second XI seems a bit dramatic, essentially saying he was better than GChappell, Hammond and Ponting.

Not saying he is or isn't, but it's interesting nonetheless.

I think that Armstrong published a 2009 edition and that Sangakkara was probably included in a lower team.

So not really a complete bolt from the blue.

 

[watson]

Chain Restaraunt XI

Hungry Jack Hobbs
Subwaymin Badrinath
Ian Taco Bell
Basil D'Olivegarden
Tony Greggs*
Craig White Castle
Ben Dunkin Donuts+
Ted McDonalds
Bob Applebees
Reon Burger King
Laxman Sivaramakrishnandos

Salman Pizza Butt?

 

[morgieb]

Chain Restaraunt XI

Hungry Jack Hobbs
Subwaymin Badrinath
Ian Taco Bell
Basil D'Olivegarden
Tony Greggs*
Craig White Castle
Ben Dunkin Donuts+
Ted McDonalds
Bob Applebees
Reon Burger King
Laxman Sivaramakrishnandos

Including both Burger King and Hungry Jacks is cheating IMO.

 

[mr_mister]

Headley is way too low down watson